In it, under the feats section, it suggests that we may wish to use the Hidden Talent feat because Athas is a High-Psionic world.
Now if I recall correctly, in the original verison there were wild talents (those who had psionic powers without a psionic class) but to be a wild talent one did not have to give up something else.
This is no longer the case, if one wishes to be a wild talent, that is have psionic powers without a psionic class, they must give up a feat.
What do you think of this? Personally, I do not care for it much.
What do you think of using the "Inborn Power" from the racial descriptions of Dragon 319?
Or do you have some other way to work this out?
Personally, I have reworked the races in my game adding abilities to some and altering the stat adjustments of others. In order to balance my races I give Humans and Half-Elves players their choice of Hidden Talent, Chaotic Mind, Closed Mind, Hostile Mind, Mental Resistance, or Psionic Hole. This doesn't really have any rationalization behind it other than game balance.
Here is something that I have been wondering about, especially after the publication of the new DS3 update.
In it, under the feats section, it suggests that we may wish to use the Hidden Talent feat because Athas is a High-Psionic world.
Now if I recall correctly, in the original verison there were wild talents (those who had psionic powers without a psionic class) but to be a wild talent one did not have to give up something else.
This is no longer the case, if one wishes to be a wild talent, that is have psionic powers without a psionic class, they must give up a feat.
What do you think of this? Personally, I do not care for it much.
What do you think of using the "Inborn Power" from the racial descriptions of Dragon 319?
Or do you have some other way to work this out?
Considering there was nothing even remotely resembling Feats in 2E, and many of the changes from 2E to 3/3.5E was explicitly set in place to balance what was grossly unbalanced, I think that the fact that someone has to choose the Hidden Talent feat in order to get a power, is perfectly reasonable. After all, the key point is to ensure that a character doesn't rapidly go out of control and have un-accounted-for abilities. It's the same reason that there are Level Adjustments and Racial Hit Dice for some races, but not for others. It's the same reason that all classes have the same XP/Level progression, as opposed to the radically divergant ones from 2E. Hell, it's the same reason that there's 9th level Divine spells now.
All I'm getting at is - there is a completely justifiable, and rational reason for requiring the Hidden Talent feat to be used. I personally completely agree with the use of that talent - especially as it puts the decision into the player's hands completely, to decide if they want it, and what power they'd want from it. Unlike 2E where there was no choice, and placing the option to the roll of a die.
I personally completely agree with the use of that talent - especially as it puts the decision into the player's hands completely, to decide if they want it, and what power they'd want from it. Unlike 2E where there was no choice, and placing the option to the roll of a die.
I don't know about that.
A wild or hidden talent is just that: unknown to the character, therefore player. There should be a randomness to it. The character obviously hasn't put the time and effort into developing this power/ability (as they don't even know of its existence), so why reward the player with a choice? It doesn't make sense. In fact, I'll go as far to say that (as a DM) allowing a player to choose his or her character's hidden/wild talent would be allowing what you people on the internet here refer to as "munchkinism", if I understand the term properly.
Allowing the player to choose their characters developed talents/abilities, well, that's a different thing altogether. The characters (through their players) have consciously chosen to pursue a particular avenue, or avenues. And I'll agree with that one hundred percent.
In short? Free feat (comes with the Wild Talent template) for say 1d3 random abilities...there's nothing unbalanced about it. You could even allow a random roll for a new talent every third level or so, just to back the chaotic nature of the character's psionic development.
Bonus feat or random talent; player's choice. :P
I don't know about that.
A wild or hidden talent is just that: unknown to the character, therefore player. There should be a randomness to it. The character obviously hasn't put the time and effort into developing this power/ability (as they don't even know of its existence), so why reward the player with a choice? It doesn't make sense. In fact, I'll go as far to say that (as a DM) allowing a player to choose his or her character's hidden/wild talent would be allowing what you people on the internet here refer to as "munchkinism", if I understand the term properly.
Allowing the player to choose their characters developed talents/abilities, well, that's a different thing altogether. The characters (through their players) have consciously chosen to pursue a particular avenue, or avenues. And I'll agree with that one hundred percent.
In short? Free feat (comes with the Wild Talent template) for say 1d3 random abilities...there's nothing unbalanced about it. You could even allow a random roll for a new talent every third level or so, just to back the chaotic nature of the character's psionic development.
Bonus feat or random talent; player's choice. :P
You seem to want to confuse player and character knowledge there. Just because the player has control over the decision of that power, it does not necessarily mean that the character had any control over it. There is a definite separation between the two when it comes to many aspects of the game. So saying something like "A wild or hidden talent is just that: unknown to the character, therefore player." is rather fallicious. Further, that is taking part of the character development process - something that the player should definitely have a hand in when making their character, out of their hands. It's even put out of the DM's hands, and placed with a die roll. When I make a character, I have conceptualized the character, and already begun work on how to fit the character into the world, as if it is a real world. That way, everything else falls into place. Getting jabbed with something random and out of my control could significantly break the initial concept I have of the character, and thus damage my enjoyment of the game. There is nothing "munchkin" about it. The DM still ends up being the final arbiter as to if a power is allowed or not, but taking that option from the player seems needlessly pointless, and causes, in my experience, far more hassles than it is worth.
And you are taking about 1d3 powers? Wow. Somehow, a single power becomes 1 - 3 randomly selected ones. That, to me, can be unbalancing - especially at the lower levels. Sheesh - and you dared to call my explanation as something pointing towards munchkin?
You seem to want to confuse player and character knowledge there. Just because the player has control over the decision of that power, it does not necessarily mean that the character had any control over it. There is a definite separation between the two when it comes to many aspects of the game. So saying something like "A wild or hidden talent is just that: unknown to the character, therefore player." is rather fallicious. Further, that is taking part of the character development process - something that the player should definitely have a hand in when making their character, out of their hands. It's even put out of the DM's hands, and placed with a die roll. When I make a character, I have conceptualized the character, and already begun work on how to fit the character into the world, as if it is a real world. That way, everything else falls into place. Getting jabbed with something random and out of my control could significantly break the initial concept I have of the character, and thus damage my enjoyment of the game. There is nothing "munchkin" about it. The DM still ends up being the final arbiter as to if a power is allowed or not, but taking that option from the player seems needlessly pointless, and causes, in my experience, far more hassles than it is worth.
When discussing anything other than a character who can be represented by the two words "Wild Talent", I agree with you.
But where is the "wild" when there is choice involved?
You, as a player, might want total control of your character, and this is perfectly fine. But, if you want to control your character's development in such a way, then role-playing a wild talent character, a person whose psionic powers just reveals itself, is not really your cup of tea. Hold out your crucifix, hiss, do whatever you want to do, just stay away.
However, and on the flip side of things, for people who like the concept behind a wild talent character, namely chaotic character development, then this might be the role for them.
Ultimately, either player has control over their character. They chose to play a role, which is the point behind this game, is it not?
Randomness defines the Wild Talent, 'nuff said.
And you are taking about 1d3 powers? Wow. Somehow, a single power becomes 1 - 3 randomly selected ones. That, to me, can be unbalancing - especially at the lower levels. Sheesh - and you dared to call my explanation as something pointing towards munchkin?
1d3, over a character's lifespan, isn't all that much when you really sit down and think about it. That, and I never said all the powers had to be rolled at once, or even revealed at once. I also provided an alternative to that (alternative) idea. To quote my earlier post: "You could even allow a random roll for a new talent every third level or so, just to back the chaotic nature of the character's psionic development." What are your thoughts on that?
And I didn't dare, I did. ;)
When discussing anything other than a character who can be represented by the two words "Wild Talent", I agree with you.
But where is the "wild" when there is choice involved?
The wild is that they are untrained, undeveloped, carefree. Just like how a Wilder is basically a character who develops and expands their Wild Talent, in a way. A Wild Talent would be a person who hasn't spent time developing in that way (taking levels in a class), but rather, has a psionic power, an advantage to call upon. And actually, in 3.5e, that's a Hidden Talent - the Wild Talent just means they basically are psionic beings, and have ccess to other psionic feats - something also unheardof in 2e.
You, as a player, might want total control of your character, and this is perfectly fine. But, if you want to control your character's development in such a way, then role-playing a wild talent character, a person whose psionic powers just reveals itself, is not really your cup of tea. Hold out your crucifix, hiss, do whatever you want to do, just stay away.
Me, as a player, would want full control of the development and generation of my character. Me, as a DM, would want my players to have the same kind of flexability and control, with my guidance to ensure that characters are full-rounded, and ensure that the character would work within the group's dynamics. You seem to be confusing the term "wild" with "random" here, and once again, it is a fallacious arguement.
However, and on the flip side of things, for people who like the concept behind a wild talent character, namely chaotic character development, then this might be the role for them.
Which I had no problem with - those who want to do that, fine with me. I explained myself, in clear English, and honestly, it is sound reasoning. You decided to tell me that it was more or less wrong, and assert your side with fallacious arguments, and generally take an offensive stance, even so slightly.
Ultimately, either player has control over their character. They chose to play a role, which is the point behind this game, is it not?
Exactly. To chose to play a role. Now, there are those who would rather be put into a pre-defined role, but that's not how I play, and that most definitely is not how I run my own games. I don't even have abilities be rolled for in my campaigns. To me, dice shouldn't be part of character generation.
Randomness defines the Wild Talent, 'nuff said.
Actually, unstructured defines the Wild Talent - and a Class is structured, trained elements of the Psionic world. A Wild Talent would not have any formal organization, training, or what have you. They have a latent ability that they can call upon. But then, you are just arguing semantics with me. Do you really want to argue argue semantics with me, here on these forums? I'd rather not go into that, as it would really detract from the conversation.
1d3, over a character's lifespan, isn't all that much when you really sit down and think about it. That, and I never said all the powers had to be rolled at once, or even revealed at once. I also provided an alternative to that (alternative) idea. To quote my earlier post: "You could even allow a random roll for a new talent every third level or so, just to back the chaotic nature of the character's psionic development." What are your thoughts on that?
Ahh, but such things are what a class is for. And what do you know? There's a class in place, called the Wilder. It's like someone else already came up with that idea, and expanded on it, plus provided a less... erratic way of character development. But if you like to make games into roll-playing, so be it.
Me, as a player, would want full control of the development and generation of my character. Me, as a DM, would want my players to have the same kind of flexability and control, with my guidance to ensure that characters are full-rounded, and ensure that the character would work within the group's dynamics. You seem to be confusing the term "wild" with "random" here, and once again, it is a fallacious arguement.
Which I had no problem with - those who want to do that, fine with me. I explained myself, in clear English, and honestly, it is sound reasoning. You decided to tell me that it was more or less wrong, and assert your side with fallacious arguments, and generally take an offensive stance, even so slightly.
You like the word "fallacious", don't you? :P
Seriously, I think what we have here is a difference of opinions on what a "Wild Talent" is. No problem, these things happen all the time on these boards. And to be civil about it (not that we haven't thus far), let's leave it at that. This doesn't have to be a ******* match, unless that's what you want. Because I'll go there if I got to, but I'd rather not. For the sake of all others.
I got my understanding, and you have athas.org's. Let's both respect that fact, no?
To me, dice shouldn't be part of character generation.
To reiterate, a Wild Talent character (as I see them) isn't every character. And with that said, I partially agree with you. But at the same time, I disagree...as you have already read.
Secondly, this isn't about you (or me for that matter). It is about DavidB trying to make an idea work for him...more to say on that below.
Actually, unstructured defines the Wild Talent - and a Class is structured, trained elements of the Psionic world. A Wild Talent would not have any formal organization, training, or what have you. They have a latent ability that they can call upon. But then, you are just arguing semantics with me. Do you really want to argue argue semantics with me, here on these forums?
I think that's what I did...
Again, seriously, then maybe you should offer actual help to DavidB's question, and offer a possible solution to his dilemma, instead of trying to convince him that something he doesn't like actually does works. It may work for you, but it's obviously not working for him.
Think about it.
There's a class in place, called the Wilder. It's like someone else already came up with that idea, and expanded on it, plus provided a less... erratic way of character development. But if you like to make games into roll-playing, so be it.
And I generally take an offensive stance, even so slightly?
Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black... :D
Back on topic, erratic character development is what separates the Wild Talent from everything else. That's what should be the attraction of the class. Take that away and you got a hollow class, nothing more, nothing less.
Getting to know one's mind is a challenge for the individual, having it open is their reward. Talents hidden deep within the subconscious mind grow to reach the conscious mind, and the Wild Talent suddenly is aware of its potential.
But the catch is that they do not know their minds; they are unlike most others. For whatever reason they are blinded to its potential. They do not reach out for it, it reaches out for them. What it is, it is. Its revelation is both elation and tripidation. The question "why?" has no answer but "because".
Such is the way of the Wild Talent. Theirs is a unique struggle for self-realisation. They are lost, walking the unknown road...
Blah blah blah.
Point behind all this admittedly half-assed stuff is that the true talents of the Wild Talent are unknown; random. As I see them anyway. And a template will better suit this chaotic individual than a class.
I can see them with structure all the same. Loose structure. Their minds slowly leaking out a greater plan, the character's destiny if you will. The mental blocks slowly, eventually, get lifted and the character begins to make sense of themselves; their mind. In the meantime, they'd be treated by others (psionic-based classes anyway) as the "retards" of Athas.
Two ways to look at it I guess: inside, or outside.
Me? I obviously prefer revelation over destination...
To get back on topic, to DavidB's question: I think it depends if you as a DM rather prefer the much-dreaded "game balance" (->spending a feat to get some low-level power) or suppose you can handle the "whacky way". With the latter I not only mean a free Hidden Talent feat (which is not that unabalancing) but rather the "Inborn Power" from the Dragon Magazine.
"Inborn Power" from the Dragon Magazine
Sounds like fun! In what dragon mag is that ability found?
Sounds like fun! In what dragon mag is that ability found?
Pennarin, dude, you cannot be serious... :rolleye2: (but in case you are the answer is the dreaded Dragon #319).
Yeah! I have a kickin' character, nice stats, awesome weapons. . /rolls
. . . . .
. . . . .
. . . . .
I can..... I can... Feel Light? What kind of crap is that???
Ooohhhh.. Oh yeah, .. this cave must obviously be pitch dark, because I can't feel any light!!!
And on the other hand you end up with the pacifistic types rolling Disintigration!.. Base characters running around with disintigration...
You know, I would not mind bringing back that old chart.. but Disintigration would come with a +6LA at the least.
Now, back on topic... If you want to create a random chart, by all means do so, but don't be too surprised when you have a character disappointed because he ended up with a crap power, or something that doesn't fit with his concept.
As for Wild Talent being Random. . . Wild talent only gives you the [Psionic] descriptor and the ability to select Psionic feats, there is nothing random about it.
Anyway... Having to spend a feat to get a power makes sense. Yes, most of the Athasian populace does have some semblance of psionic ability, but not all, and the expenditure of a feat represents those people learning to use and direct their latent talent into a usable ability. It actually makes more sense than the old version where you could have a person with no talent, focus and psionic direction able to manifest disintigrate!! Which would take a lot of training I would think
Ultimately, it's down to you. If you want to give everyone a free Hidden Talent Feat, go ahead. But I think forcing them to roll random powers just leads to more people being disappointed and never using their powers than actually enjoying what they ended up with.
You like the word "fallacious", don't you? :P
Arguents relying on logical fallacies to prove their point, are by their nature, fallacious.
I got my understanding, and you have athas.org's. Let's both respect that fact, no?
Now that you might, I will return to basically doing it. Originally, the entire point of my argument, at the beginning of the thread, was to shed light on something, which DavidB seemed to not fully understand, which is the reasoning behind the change in the rules to the new system. I only replied to you, when basically, your response seemed to be nothing more than a "I don't see it that way, it doesn't work, here's why" - which basically means a clarification of the point was necessary. As it stands, I still feel a clarification may be necessary, however, I'm stuck at a point without being able to figure out how else to make the point clear to you.
To reiterate, a Wild Talent character (as I see them) isn't every character. And with that said, I partially agree with you. But at the same time, I disagree...as you have already read.
Well, personally, I have no problem with every character in a campaign being a Wild Talent. I do have a problem with putting that to chance. When developing the backstory, and personality makeup of a character, to then get a random power thrown on at the end, is just silly. My reasoning behind such a statement is, that it's like saying that for the entirety of the character's life, that character had no clue as to the nature of his or her talent, and then suddenly, this power appears the split second before the campaign begins. To me, that's just freaky. I see a Wild Talent being something that the character has lived with, grown up with, and the power has become molded into his very nature. The power is part of the character, in a sense, as opposed to being tacked on haphazardly.
Again, seriously, then maybe you should offer actual help to DavidB's question, and offer a possible solution to his dilemma, instead of trying to convince him that something he doesn't like actually does works. It may work for you, but it's obviously not working for him.
Public debate, from which these Forums derive their nature and existence, is all about stating your case, and then having a potentially opposing argument being presented. From these opposites, comes weeding out the inaccuracies and leads to true knowledge. Simply agreeing with DavidB, when I myself don't agree, would be a basic violation of that concept. Part of presenting one's case, is to attempt to persuade others to your point of view. All of this, is how I have more or less always handled myself on Forums for the past couple decades. If you don't see it that way, I guess that's just another point of contention between us, and in a way, I feel pity for you. But let's get back to the topic at hand.
Back on topic, erratic character development is what separates the Wild Talent from everything else. That's what should be the attraction of the class. Take that away and you got a hollow class, nothing more, nothing less.
Once again, that is not true. For every reason I presented above, and even some reasons others have presented in the thread as well.
Getting to know one's mind is a challenge for the individual, having it open is their reward. Talents hidden deep within the subconscious mind grow to reach the conscious mind, and the Wild Talent suddenly is aware of its potential.
But your idea of a Wild Talent is that the character hasn't gotten to know his own mind. Rather, he has basically been totally unconscious of what his Wild Talent was up until the second before the Campaign starts.
Personally, I always hated the old system of rolling in Dark Sun 1 and 2.
Yeah! I have a kickin' character, nice stats, awesome weapons. . /rolls
. . . . .
. . . . .
. . . . .
I can..... I can... Feel Light? What kind of crap is that???
Ooohhhh.. Oh yeah, .. this cave must obviously be pitch dark, because I can't feel any light!!!
And on the other hand you end up with the pacifistic types rolling Disintigration!.. Base characters running around with disintigration...
You know, I would not mind bringing back that old chart.. but Disintigration would come with a +6LA at the least.
Colorful, and yet a good example of why the Randomness causes more problems than it solves.
As for Wild Talent being Random. . . Wild talent only gives you the [Psionic] descriptor and the ability to select Psionic feats, there is nothing random about it.
Well, the thing is - he is referring to the 2E rule of Wild Talent, and applying it to 3.5E. Which is generally not a good idea of any sort, as the 2E mechanics were so severely broken, that something like that, without strong, solid study, could cause no end of grief in a campaign. What you listed is what Wild Talent does in 3.5E. Further, the point of contention of this thread was between the 2E Wild Talent and the 3.5E Hidden Talent, however sometimes the terminology got a bit blurry there.
I was not talking about the way Wild Talents worked in v2. The point was was trying to make about Dark Sun in v2 was that there seemed like there could be more psionic users that did not have any psionic class.
As for Wild Talent feat, I would not use that in Dark Sun v3.5 as all it does is grant a reserve of 2 power points. It does not give one any powers.
The feat I would use is the optional Hidden Talent feat, as Dark Sun is a High-Psoinics world. This gives the reserve of 2 power points and one 1st level power from the psionic class list. Now I might consider removing the restriction that this can only be taken at 1st level.
My main question, though, is what is the instance of psionics? How much of the population would have either a psionic class or the Hidden Talent feat?
Let me just clairify something.
I was not talking about the way Wild Talents worked in v2. The point was was trying to make about Dark Sun in v2 was that there seemed like there could be more psionic users that did not have any psionic class.
As for Wild Talent feat, I would not use that in Dark Sun v3.5 as all it does is grant a reserve of 2 power points. It does not give one any powers.
The feat I would use is the optional Hidden Talent feat, as Dark Sun is a High-Psoinics world. This gives the reserve of 2 power points and one 1st level power from the psionic class list. Now I might consider removing the restriction that this can only be taken at 1st level.
I had originally thought you were along that track, but the use of the word "instance" really throws me. Sorry (wow, this thread went off-track then
My main question, though, is what is the instance of psionics? How much of the population would have either a psionic class or the Hidden Talent feat?
Depends on your campaign. For me, Psionics is as common in Dark Sun, as magic would be in.... let's say Gryhawk, Forgotton Realms, or Eberron. The Wild Talent (or Hidden Talent) feats reflect individuals who have the potential for Psionics, but have not developed it more (through Psychic Warrior, Psion, Wilder or even Soulknife). Magic, on the otherhand, is rare in my Dark Sun games. In a sense, the two switch places a bit from the typical balance between them.
Now, I personally allow for an extra Feat on character generation, with a limited selection of what feats are available, including a Feat I made specifically so people don't have to start as slaves if they don't want to (well, I default everyone to Slave status unless they take that feat), and the Hidden Talent feat. Then again, I also start people at a higher level than some others do (everyone starts at a total ECL of 4 in my campaigns), and generally with a significant reduction in the amount of money and wealth (items, etc) than would be typical (however, I also have them start with slightly more points to spend on their attributes, still toying with that adjustment). So, basically, most of my characters tend to be able to get Hidden Talent.
I generally work with the statement from one of the books, paraphrased it reads "Everyone on Athas is at leas a little psionic." Does that help?
I had originally thought you were along that track, but the use of the word "instance" really throws me. Sorry (wow, this thread went off-track then
Yes it did a bit, but I found some value in the discussion anyways!
Depends on your campaign. For me, Psionics is as common in Dark Sun, as magic would be in.... let's say Gryhawk, Forgotton Realms, or Eberron. The Wild Talent (or Hidden Talent) feats reflect individuals who have the potential for Psionics, but have not developed it more (through Psychic Warrior, Psion, Wilder or even Soulknife). Magic, on the otherhand, is rare in my Dark Sun games. In a sense, the two switch places a bit from the typical balance between them.
Now, I personally allow for an extra Feat on character generation, with a limited selection of what feats are available, including a Feat I made specifically so people don't have to start as slaves if they don't want to (well, I default everyone to Slave status unless they take that feat), and the Hidden Talent feat. Then again, I also start people at a higher level than some others do (everyone starts at a total ECL of 4 in my campaigns), and generally with a significant reduction in the amount of money and wealth (items, etc) than would be typical (however, I also have them start with slightly more points to spend on their attributes, still toying with that adjustment). So, basically, most of my characters tend to be able to get Hidden Talent.
I generally work with the statement from one of the books, paraphrased it reads "Everyone on Athas is at leas a little psionic." Does that help?
This sounds perfect, offer a extra bonus feat at 1st level.
I always thought that the characters should start at a higher level too.
Would you mind posting your feat list for this bonus feat?
Thanks!
Arguents relying on logical fallacies to prove their point, are by their nature, fallacious.
How? They are my ideas, just as yours are yours, and the Wilder is the Wilder.
Then again, don't answer that. I'm pretty sure I know your type...
Now that you might, I will return to basically doing it. Originally, the entire point of my argument, at the beginning of the thread, was to shed light on something, which DavidB seemed to not fully understand, which is the reasoning behind the change in the rules to the new system. I only replied to you, when basically, your response seemed to be nothing more than a "I don't see it that way, it doesn't work, here's why" - which basically means a clarification of the point was necessary. As it stands, I still feel a clarification may be necessary, however, I'm stuck at a point without being able to figure out how else to make the point clear to you.
You don't have to make anything clear to me, as I don't want to buy anything you got to sell. On this particular subject anyway. I have no problems at all with Dark Sun because I made it my own. I may not agree with athas.org's from time to time, or joe blow poster's for that matter, but I never did play a game straight from any given idea. I never was a freak for rules, as I made everything I wanted to work, work. Someway or another.
Have I ever told you about my version of the Wild Talent? :P
Well, personally, I have no problem with every character in a campaign being a Wild Talent. I do have a problem with putting that to chance. When developing the back story, and personality makeup of a character, to then get a random power thrown on at the end, is just silly. My reasoning behind such a statement is, that it's like saying that for the entirety of the character's life, that character had no clue as to the nature of his or her talent, and then suddenly, this power appears the split second before the campaign begins.
No, before character inception. Big difference. Back story the talent all you want...little more on that below.
And I meant that every character isn't ( a Wild Talent; to be) assigned a certain degree of randomness...
To me, that's just freaky.
Yeah, kind of wild hey?
I see a Wild Talent being something that the character has lived with, grown up with, and the power has become molded into his very nature. The power is part of the character, in a sense,
I can see this as well, as a base talent of the developing mind. The first insight, or, revelation.
Simply agreeing with DavidB, when I myself don't agree, would be a basic violation of that concept.
Pal, you don't have to like an idea to be able to make it feasible...
Part of presenting one's case, is to attempt to persuade others to your point of view.
Presenting one's ideas on these boards in particular is intention of triggering another's imaginative mind. Simple, and honest. It's just sometimes the ideas are lost in translation and need a little more explanation.
There is no Jimmy Jonesin' involved whatsoever.
Get in, throw your idea, and if it sticks it sticks, now walk away. Maybe create a new thread to fully explain your idea. Something that I might (and probably should hey?) do with this Wild Talent template of "mine"...
If you don't see it that way, I guess that's just another point of contention between us, and in a way, I feel pity for you.
Seriously, don't waste your time with such nonsense.
Oh, you didn't really mean it that way... :D
But let's get back to the topic at hand.
Yes, let's.
But your idea of a Wild Talent is that the character hasn't gotten to know his own mind. Rather, he has basically been totally unconscious of what his Wild Talent was up until the second before the Campaign starts.
No.
The character has been totally unconscious of their mind's potential up until their first "revelation". This might have happened at any point in the character's life, and probably should be back storied. During actual play, more revelations come, as their mind begins to slowly unravel, or, reveal itself.
Getting to know their mind is the purpose of their character campaign, and is one facet of what they bring to the table each and every time.
All the same, this is all pointless, as it has been off-topic the entire time (sorry DavidB!
).I make my retreat...
This sounds perfect, offer a extra bonus feat at 1st level.
I always thought that the characters should start at a higher level too.
Would you mind posting your feat list for this bonus feat?
Thanks!
I did, in a thread titled something in reference to xlorepdarkhelm's alternative rules. There';s like 3 feats - Hidden Talent, Freeman, and umm.... one that is like Psychic TRaining, or something from the XPH. Freeman is a feat they have to take at character generation, if they do not want to be a slave (and if they want to have gear). With Freeman, they get the amount of money that a level 1 character of their class would get (note: characters start at level 4, so they have 3 levels less worth of money available). I have another one which isNoble, that basically makes them start as a Noble, and they get the money that a level 4 character would have\ (Note: Noble has a prerequisite of the Freeman feat)
I did, in a thread titled something in reference to xlorepdarkhelm's alternative rules. There';s like 3 feats - Hidden Talent, Freeman, and umm.... one that is like Psychic TRaining, or something from the XPH. Freeman is a feat they have to take at character generation, if they do not want to be a slave (and if they want to have gear). With Freeman, they get the amount of money that a level 1 character of their class would get (note: characters start at level 4, so they have 3 levels less worth of money available). I have another one which isNoble, that basically makes them start as a Noble, and they get the money that a level 4 character would have\ (Note: Noble has a prerequisite of the Freeman feat)
Thanks! I found the thread but you don't seem to explain the feat Psionic Schooling.
Here, I'll just post the list of Wild Talent feats that I'm using:
Wild Talent [General]
You have a natural psionic talent.
Prerequisites: No levels in Psionic Classes, or 1st level
Benefit: You gain a single 1st level power, from any power list, and 2 power points with which to activate the power. Your manifester level is 1. The DC for saving throws versus manifestations of your power are Charisma based.
Special: If you later gain levels in a psionic class, this power is added to the list of powers you known and the 2 power points granted by this feat are added to your power point pool.
Improved Wild Talent [General]
You have an unusualy strong natural psionic talent.
Prerequisites: Wild Talent, No levels in Psionic Classes, 3rd level
Benefit: You gain an additional power point per level after the first, and your manifester level for activating your Wild Talent is now ½ your character level (round up). So a 3rd level character would have a manifester level of 2 and a power point reserve of 4, and a 6th level character would have a manifester level of 3 and a power point reserve of 7.
Special: If you later gain levels in a psionic class, this power is added to the list of powers you know and the power points gained by this feat are added to you power point pool. When manifesting this power you can manifest it at a maximum of either your normal manifester level, or at half your character level whichever is higher.
Greater Wild Talent [General]
You amazingly gifted with natural psionic talent.
Prerequisites: Wild Talent, Improved Wild Talent, 6th level
Benefit: You gain an addition Wild Talent (subject to DM’s approval). This power can be chosen from powers up to a level equal to what a Psion of up to half your level could choose. So, at 6th level you could choose a 2nd level power, and at 10th level you could choose a 3rd level power. Concentration is now considered a class skill for you, if it wasn’t already. If you already have Concentration as a class skill, you gain a +2 bonus to your Concentration checks to become Psionically focused or to maintain your Psionic focus.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time it allows you to unlock another Wild Talent (subject to DM’s approval).
Cannibalized Power [General]
You are blessed (or cursed) with a great latent power that you can only activate at great personal expense.
Prerequisites: 1st level, No levels in Psionic Classes, DM’s approval
Benefit: You gain the ability to use a psionic power of up to 4th level (chosen when you take this feat). When you activate this power, you take ability damage equal to the cost of activating the power, of a type dependant on the power chosen as shown in the table below. If you choose a lower level power, you may activate it at a manifester level of up to 7th level, but must still pay the ability cost equal to the level the power is manifested at. Activating a power in this fashion causes you to become fatigued, if you are already fatigued you become exhausted. You may not activate a power in this fashion if you are exhausted. For powers that have a personal range (like many Pyschometabolic powers), you are not fatigued until the duration of the power elapses.
Table 1-1
Power Type Ability
Psychometabolic Intelligence
Psychokinetic Strength
Psychoportation Constitution
Clairsentience Wisdom
Telepathy Constitution
Special: If you later gain levels in a psionic class, you may spend power points equal to your manifester level toward the activation of the power gained from this feat. Each point spent in this way reduces the ability damage from activating the power by one point. Manifester levels and power points gained from Wild talent cannot be utilized toward the activation this power. If you are able to pay the entire cost for activating this power with power points, then you are not fatigued by its activation.
Thanks! I found the thread but you don't seem to explain the feat Psionic Schooling.
I am trying to remember where I got that one. Might have been from the athas.org docs.
Psionic Schooling [General]
In your homeland, all who show some skill in the
way may receive training as a psion.
Benefit: Psion is now a favored class for you, in
addition to any other favored class you already
possess. It does not count when determining
multiclass XP penalties.
Normal: One may only have one favored class.
Special: This feat must be selected at 1st level.
I am open to looking at anything someone else is running with.
First they roll d100, 1-40=0 level power, 41-70=1st, 71-90=2nd, 91-00=3rd.
Then the roll a d6 for the discipline, then d(however many powers there in that level of the discipline).