Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ripvanwormer Jun 27, 2005 22:16:47	Steve Miller in Dragon #272 wrote:
#2 OleOneEye Jun 28, 2005 0:10:23	Three possibilities spring to mind: an early Oeridian kingdom around the Fals Gap, or the Suel House Burgess that located north of Rhola and Nehili, or a Flan kingdom of the northern Sheldomar. As a nomadic people, it seems unlikely Oeridians would build castles that early in their history, and they feel more tribal oriented than kingdom oriented at that time. Thus, Oeridians don't feel quite right. Suel houses would certainly have built strongholds in their new lands, and I imagine dozens of small kingdoms fractioning out the lands they conquered. However, the Suel don't have the right feel for a sole kingdom holding out against an evil overlord - they should be the evil overlords. Thus, Suel don't feel right either. Flan have a long tradition of being the people overrun by powerful neighbors, battling to the end. I imagine their lands dotted with Celtic-style forts. Finally, an oath for revenge seems like a Flannish thing to do. Thus, I think I will place the Flannish kingdom of Burgess (or Burghez as you suggest) in the Gran March area, controlling the important fords across the northern Sheldomar River. A powerful line of kings, the Welnarek dynasty commanded fealty of several smaller kinglets stretching from Bissel to the Axewood, making Burgess the strongest kingdom of the Sheldomar. Due to their destruction at Vecna's hand, the Flan states fractured even further fighting bitter little wars. Into this chaos came the Suel Houses Rhola and Neheli, which were able to conquer their lands with relative ease. Had the Welnarek line never been shattered, they may have pulled together a coalition of Flan states to battle the Suel invasions and possibly prevent the Suel conquest of the Sheldomar valley. As things happened, Vecna's predations allowed the Suel expansion.
#3 Mortepierre Jun 28, 2005 2:03:50	It could even be in Ravenloft, I guess. No, not unless it was part of the 'false history' created by the Dark Powers for Vecna when they created the Burning Peaks domain for him (and Kas). However, that domain was one of the very few with no history whatsover, so that would be surprising. Sounds more GH than RL to me.
#4 samwise Jun 28, 2005 22:07:35	A Flan kingdom on the fords of the northern Sheldomar wouldn't really fit. Vecna's capital was at Shibboleth. That would put the kingdom right next to him, and make it the first conquest. That location would also speak against an Oerdian Kingdom in the Fals Gap, which would suggest so much control over the area that no migrations would go past it, or a Suel Kingdom north of the Neheli who were based at Niole Dra. (Not to mention the Neheli showed up at the tail end of the Empire of Vecna, so their location 200+ years in the future wouldn't really be relevant. It should be a bit further away.
#5 ivid Jun 29, 2005 1:03:05	What do you guys think, was Burgess in the Flanaess? The article doesn't say so. It could even be in Ravenloft, I guess. But, I mean, if someone was hypothetically coming up with a list of ancient Flan kingdoms, "Burgess" or some more Flannish sounding version of the word ("Burghez") could be one of them. The artifact itself is pretty interesting: among other things, it allows a person with Hand and Eye of Vecna grafted on to resist their malign urges for a time. The last king of Burgess was Welnarek IV, which does look decently Flannish. Very, very interesting. Maybe the king of Skrellingshald? -Would have been on Vecna's dread route... :fight!:
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 29, 2005 7:47:34	Very, very interesting. Maybe the king of Skrellingshald? -Would have been on Vecna's dread route... Knowing very well I'm stepping into the "How big was Vecna's empire?" minefield, Skralingshald is a tad far away from the Sheldomar basin, which is where a lot of canon sources seem to place Vecna's powerbase. It's pretty far away from the Nyr Dyv too (the other place he may or may not have had a residence). Unless you're referring to the cool, but alas, apocrophal Steve Wilson Aliador histories that I was once so fond of myself?
#7 gv_dammerung Jun 29, 2005 10:12:45	What do you guys think, was Burgess in the Flanaess? The article doesn't say so. It could even be in Ravenloft, I guess. But, I mean, if someone was hypothetically coming up with a list of ancient Flan kingdoms, "Burgess" or some more Flannish sounding version of the word ("Burghez") could be one of them. Excellent post. I agree with both your points. It was a Flan kingdom in the Sheldomar (big place, that) and "Burgess" is a corruption of the actual Flannish name. I especially like the last as a way to avoid "GH silly name syndrome" that seems to crop up every so often.
#8 ivid Jun 29, 2005 12:52:27	Knowing very well I'm stepping into the "How big was Vecna's empire?" minefield, Skralingshald is a tad far away from the Sheldomar basin, which is where a lot of canon sources seem to place Vecna's powerbase. It's pretty far away from the Nyr Dyv too (the other place he may or may not have had a residence). Unless you're referring to the cool, but alas, apocrophal Steve Wilson Aliador histories that I was once so fond of myself? Since my work on KUL'GOBSULA (whenever I will release it) I hold Mr Wilson stories/OJ 1 entries very dearly. Yeah, I was referring to them, because there, a near vicinity between the Olven and the Flan is suggested...
#9 chatdemon Jun 30, 2005 19:02:52	If you accept that article as canon (I do), then yes, Burgess was in the Sheldomar. Vecna's empire was centered around what is now the rushmoors, so Burgess was obviously one of the smaller flan kingdoms that Vecna conquered.
#10 ivid Jul 01, 2005 1:19:51	So, then it's clear: Burgess is in the Sheldomar.