I had a look in the Vaults, but it seems that precious little has been done to expand the region. The best resource is definitely Marco and Shawn's timeline, which looks promising for pulling some details from for the map.
I can't find any official references to Wendar other than some very general stuff in X11 and the not-so-useful write ups in the Poor Wizard's Almanacs.
So, I thought I'd ask around and see if anyone knows anything else about the situation. Are there any other official sources? How about unofficial sources? Where do the names in the Wendar/Denagoth Timeline and Thibault's Wendar map come from?
I also should probably place some extra villages on the map. I don't want to start putting on settlements without names, so if anyone has any suggestions for new Wendarian settlements, please post them. For now, just the names should be fine. (Currently we have the City of Wendar, Woodgate, Oakhall and Sylvair, plus Bensarian's Hermitage.)
Any help would be much appreciated.
Tonight I've been working on an 8 mi per hex map of Wendar. It still has some tweaking to be done, but it's awfully empty.
I agree. I think you're on the right track, though, in looking at Marco and Shawn's work, as well as Thib's maps. I would also suggest you consult the Mystaran Almanacs, for, although they are dated after the Gazetteer period, there may still be place names and geographical references that very likely existed in AC 1000. I know that someone compiled an index of the MAs some time ago (very useful idea, IMO), and it should be in the Vaults somewhere. I'd check it out for you if I could, but I'm at work right now.
As for place names, how about these (plus factoids):
Surewatch Keep (located in the southwest corner of my Denagoth map - Wendarian fortress charged with watching the porous border regions near Geron. The garrison takes its duty very seriously - the keep has never fallen in its 500-odd year history)
Genalldhon (village in forested hills south on Mengul Range - well known for its artisans, who produce exquisite carvings from nearby stands of birch and oak)
Ammalanleth (village located deep in one of the forests, populated by elves of a more traditionalist bent)
Dalvarhøfn (a predominantly Heldanner village northwest of the Bensarian Hermitage, southeast of Surewatch Keep - settled by Heldanners who fled the onslaught of the Heldannic Order in AC 950. The king gave them lands in the rich, rolling plains south of the Mengul Range, both to make those lands more productive, and to create a buffer zone in case Denagoth ever managed to invade - a consummate politician)
Let me know if this is useful, and I'll supply more.
Geoff
I also should probably place some extra villages on the map. I don't want to start putting on settlements without names, so if anyone has any suggestions for new Wendarian settlements, please post them.
What a fun idea! Great to let the rest of us participate. I'd love to see a settlement I've made up appear on one of your maps, that would be cool! :D
The only Wendarian settlement I have named so far is Duncan's Keep. It appeared in the Mystara NPC Catalogue thread here at the forum, because a group of NPC adventurers once saved the settlement from a small green dragon.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6161236&postcount=20
If the settlement makes it onto your map I will have to flesh it out some more of course! ;)
:-) Jesper
I agree. I think you're on the right track, though, in looking at Marco and Shawn's work, as well as Thib's maps. I would also suggest you consult the Mystaran Almanacs, for, although they are dated after the Gazetteer period, there may still be place names and geographical references that very likely existed in AC 1000. I know that someone compiled an index of the MAs some time ago (very useful idea, IMO), and it should be in the Vaults somewhere. I'd check it out for you if I could, but I'm at work right now.
wow I don't recall that index Geoff, do you have a copy lying about somewhere
I am sure I named all of the forests and woods inside the nation in my MA articles on Wendar, but I didn't add villages in the map.
Always consider however, that the population should be a fair mix of human of Antalian stock (90%) and Dun stock (10%, when I say Dun I am referring to the Celtic-like stock you can find in Dundadale, Hinterlands and Robrenn) and of Genalleth elves (similar to Alfheimers, some more like the Icevale elves, many of them rangers), so the village names you may use should range between elvish, antalian and celtic (minority).
Oh, do not forget to place a holy shrine to the Great One called Shadowmere (IIRC) in the southern Wendarian Range. This comes from the Dragonlord trilogy IIRC.
Harri
X11 has quite a few names for Denagoth settlements and regions, but unfortunately it's extremely lacking when it comes to Wendar. It didn't even include the towns of Woodgate, Oakhall and Sylvair, which come from the Wrath of the Immortals map. And Bensarian's Hermitage was strangely labelled "Bengarian Hermitage". I have decided to correct this to "Bensarian's Hermitage" on my maps.
Marco, I have yet to check out the Mystaran Almanac stuff about Wendar. I'm afraid that in general I tend to avoid the Almanac stuff, especially the later Almanacs, because as they go on they get further and further away from the eras that I am most interested in for maps - 1000 AC and 1010 AC. Well, that and I don't like the Joshuan's Almanac style. :P
That said, I will definitely go and check them out now.
- the scorched battlefield (encounter #2, p.5)
- the Castle/Tower of the Cloud Giant (encounter #6, p.6-9)
From X11 (map VII):
- the Bengarian Hermitage
Not much beyond that, I am afraid
Later on I will add the settlements and labels you guys have provided today.
Remember: this map is under construction! 
Basically, the map is just a conversion of the 24 mi per hex maps provided in X11 and Wrath of the Immortals.
Where those maps disagree with each other, I made a judgement call. Also, I have placed the western border
at the bottom of the Adri Varma Plateau. Otherwise, it is pretty faithful to the smaller scale maps.
oh, and...
Your maps are amazing.
It's beautiful, though. Can't wait to see it populated by settlements.
BTW, why is there both a trail and a road next to each other in the SE corner of the map?
:-) Jesper
See if it can be of some inspiration to your mapmaking, Thorf.
Nestled among two plateaux and two mountain ranges, Wendar (or Genalleth, as the elven race calls it) is a secluded and ancient land that still holds many secrets and marvels even to its inhabitants. Thick evergreen forests blanket more than a half of this region, their beauty and stateliness mirroring the Canolbarth Forest in its glory days. There are four major "reserves" (this is the best translation of the way the elves call them) in Wendar, all closely guarded and tended by Genalleth elves.
The first and most important one, Korrigan Forest, lies in the western part of the nation, touching Wendar City and Sylvair, the two most thriving Wendarian cities. It is renowned for the beauty of its sequoias and for the many shrines sacred to the Korrigans, the Nine Elven Protectors that watch upon Genalleth. The legend says that they drew their name from the mythical (and believed extinct) korrigan, a woodland animal that once lived here.
The Forest of Bounty (now renamed Forest of the Curse after the events of AC 1013 and 1014) lies in the southwestern corner of the nation and is currently inhabited by the Alfheim refugees. Mighty and sturdy oaks grow here, protected by a small group of treants that the elves call "The Elders." Woodgate and Oakwall, two other towns, lie at the easternmost border of this forest, and use its wood to boast their logging industry.
Right at the centre of the Genalleth Valley we find the Enchanted Forest, a mysterious patch of trees that the elves hold as sacred. According to the legends, here live the fairies with their sylvan friends, the centaurs and actaeons, and those who dare trespass against Nature in this place are bound to be abducted by actaeons and to serve the fairies for the rest of their life. Tales of missing wanderers abound in this region.
The last important reserve lies at the northwestern border and is referred to as the Dark Woods of Baamor. The Wendarians tell frightening tales about this area, whose trees are strangely darker and more twisted than the common trees of the region, and whose fauna is made up of deformed and evil parodies of the common woodland animals. Elven sages blame this to a mysterious being (or race, this is not clearly defined) called Baamor, who tried to poison the entire continent in the ancient days to appease the Dark Immortals. However, the Korrigans rebelled against Baamor and ultimately defeated him, imprisoning the evil Baamor inside one of the blight trees of this forest. Therefore, in order to avoid freeing him, it is strictly prohibited to cut down any tree in this region. In fact, few people venture there, for it is said that Baamor tries to possess anyone who walks into his forest and use him to achieve freedom.
The rest of the region consists of rocky hills to the east and to the south, where the few herders raise their cattle (horses and sheep mostly). In the central plains and moors the humans raise their crops. The valleys and plains are usually safe and free of monsters, but the more one gets to the mountain ranges, the more the trip becomes dangerous.
The Wendarian Range to the south and the Mengul Mountains to the north are renowned for their snow-capped peaks and for the fierceness of their inhabitants. The Wendarian Range, whose peaks average 11,000 feet in height, is home to many tribes of yeti, sasquatches and even a few white dragons.
The only two southern passes maintained and guarded actively by the Wendarians are the Elven Pass to the southeast, which leads directly to Oakwall, and the Kevar Pass to the southwest, from which the Royal Way leads to the capital winding through the Korrigan Forest. There is a third pass leading northwards through the Mengul Mountains and up to Denagoth, but it has not been used since the last war with Essuria, about 80 years ago. Gylharen Keep has been built near the border with Denagoth under the supervision of King Gylharen, and the standing garrison has the sole purpose of stopping (or slowing) any possible invasion attempt from that land. However, since Denagoth has not given any significant trouble in the last decades, the soldiers stationed here have taken on the duty to harass and annihilate any humanoid band trying to cross the border and cause mayhem in Wendar; so far, they've been successful.
I think Greg ment the index I made for the net almanacs from AC 1014 to 1018. It's in the Vaults (http://pandius.com/almindex.html).
Harri
oops Harri I forgot about that, is that you meant Geoff?
Lerian's Tower (located in the clear gap near the word "maps"): This tower was built by a distant cousin of one of the first kings of Wendar to secure the northern marches. Much beloved by the king, the cousin was granted a great deal of autonomy, and ruled the northern frontier as his own domain. The details of his treachery are now lost (likely destroyed), but the cousin turned against the king, and a great civil war ensued, spilling much blood in the lands surrounding the tower (which was thereafter named the Gap of Tears). The king prevailed, and the cousin's name was struck from all the records. He would have demolished the tower, too, but for its strategic importance. The king's son, Lerian, offered to give up the crown and guard the northern border - a duty he upheld until his death 330 years later. Thereafter, the tower was named after Lerian in his honour. Today, it is well garrisoned, with a scattering of human farms surrounding it.
Shrine of Nione (located NNW of Woodgate): Nione was an elven heroine of great renown centuries ago, whose deeds are still sung. During a great battle against a Denagothian horde, she slew Felzuumath, a fearsome mountain giant who commanded the evil army (which broke up soon afterwards in disarray), but died of her injuries soon afterwards. Her heroism allowed the crown prince, who was commanding the Wendarian armies, to escape to safety. Out of gratitude, the crown price built a beautiful shrine to honour the hero. Today, many Wendarians who dream of becoming heroes make a pilgrimage to the shrine to seek Nione's guidance, and to pay homage. Some even claim to have received visions while visiting.
Yngvarsvall (located in the clear land between Woodgate and Lerian's Tower): Another village populated primarily by people of Heldanner stock. Military wagons going between the town and the tower often use the village as a rest stop. As a result, a small, but moderately prosperous, group of craftsmen and burghers grew up here, trading their services for the soldiers' coin.
..maybe add a mine or two in the south, where the mountainous bits are...
Geoff
If the settlement makes it onto your map I will have to flesh it out some more of course! ;)
Duncan's Keep... it sounds like a tower, similar to Grunturm in Heldann, right? Care to write a capsule description? Also, where would you like it placed?
From X11 (map VI):
- the scorched battlefield (encounter #2, p.5)
- the Castle/Tower of the Cloud Giant (encounter #6, p.6-9)
From X11 (map VII):
- the Bengarian Hermitage
Not much beyond that, I am afraid
I don't think the scorched battlefield is really a major enough battle to require a battlefield symbol, is it?
And the Castle of the Cloud Giant is across the border, in the much more well detailed country of Denagoth. ;) I'll be doing that too, eventually!
Wow! That really is quite empty!
You can see why I thought it didn't look right, can't you? (Note: I will be updating the map as we go, so if you're reading this later you probably can't see how empty it originally was! :P )
BTW, why is there both a trail and a road next to each other in the SE corner of the map?
Because I haven't worked out which is the correct spot to connect to the trail/road into the Heldannic Territories yet. ;) :P
I decided to put Gylharen Keep on the Heldann border, at Kevar Pass, because Surewatch Keep seems like a good name for the Denagoth garrison. And I placed a mine in the mountains near the village of Kevar.
I also noticed that there is not really any suitable symbol for shrines. So for now I have improvised with a tower symbol. There is a shrine symbol in HWR3, I think, or perhaps I could design a new one, if necessary.
Marco, I'm a little confused about the forests, because it seems to me that there are actually more than four. I marked them according to your description, although I notice that Thibault's map has the forests quite different from mine, and also the labels are in different places. He also has the northern border placed much higher than X11 and Wrath of the Immortals have it.
Talking of borders, does anyone have any issues with my current border? It can easily be adjusted one hex in or out at most locations, and still be roughly in line with the 24 mi per hex border. I've been thinking of adding some "bumps" along the Denagoth border, to break up the current straight line of mountains there a bit.
I updated the map. Scroll up to see it!
Lovely!
Talking of borders, does anyone have any issues with my current border? It can easily be adjusted one hex in or out at most locations, and still be roughly in line with the 24 mi per hex border. I've been thinking of adding some "bumps" along the Denagoth border, to break up the current straight line of mountains there a bit.
That sounds good to me. Let me know if you want more villages or points of interest.
Geoff
Duncan's Keep... it sounds like a tower, similar to Grunturm in Heldann, right? Care to write a capsule description? Also, where would you like it placed?
I'll write a small capsule description a.s.a.p.
In the meantime, I think Wendar should have some manner of water; either rivers or lakes. It looks a bit funny to be the only map without water at all :D
:-) Jesper
That sounds good to me. Let me know if you want more villages or points of interest.
The more the merrier, really. Possible additions include villages, towers, ruins, battle sites, mines and of course small areas of other terrain types, most likely moor or small stands of trees.
Regarding water, I think the main problem is that there isn't really a good place for water to go, because the country is surrounded by high mountains and a plateau, with only the northern border clear. So there's no obvious runoff for a major river.
On the other hand, you can be sure that there will be lots of minor streams and burns, even if they aren't marked on the map. (As is always the case.) As to where these all go...
Regarding water, I think the main problem is that there isn't really a good place for water to go, because the country is surrounded by high mountains and a plateau, with only the northern border clear. So there's no obvious runoff for a major river.
On the other hand, you can be sure that there will be lots of minor streams and burns, even if they aren't marked on the map. (As is always the case.) As to where these all go...
Well, it's been a long time since I opened a book about geography and rainfalls and such, but wouldn't the water simply spread out across the lowlands and seep into the ground?
Or it might run NE into the Northern Wildlands on the map from X11?
Or it might run into a lake and from there down into Shadowdeep, forming some of the underground lakes and river where the shadowelves live?
:-) Jesperw
Conceivably, Wendar could have numerous small lakes, ponds, bogs and marshes amid the forests and settelments- Think Lower Germany, earlier first century AD, when the Battle of Teutenberg Wald took place.
Generally speaking, water flows to and collects in the lowest points of any given area. Where a lot of water is involved, the watertable will rise considerably and this will form lakes, ponds, and small streams in the lower areas that are not suited for large rivers.
Conceivably, Wendar could have numerous small lakes, ponds, bogs and marshes amid the forests and settelments- Think Lower Germany, earlier first century AD, when the Battle of Teutenberg Wald took place.
I like the idea of more bogs and marshes on the map. It would certainly create some interesting places for more dangerous wildlife and monsters...
:-) Jesper
I like the idea of more bogs and marshes on the map. It would certainly create some interesting places for more dangerous wildlife and monsters...
I agree. I'd like to place some moors somewhere in Wendar, as I noted above somewhere. There is somewhat of a shortage of moors in the Known World. ;)
I'm still a little reluctant to add major water features, but I might be persuaded to add some minor streams and pools, I suppose... But I think it's probably best to have them in the geographical description rather than actually on the map.
The more the merrier, really. Possible additions include villages, towers, ruins, battle sites, mines and of course small areas of other terrain types, most likely moor or small stands of trees.
OK.....looking at Shawn's and Marco's timeline, Wendar rose as a modern kingdom in AC 910 under Gylharen. However, the towns and villages have been members of defensive leagues in the past, so there could possibly have been many elvish (and maybe a few human) nobles or self-styled kings, each ruling a petty dominion. All this to say that there could very well have been many battles between the towns and various factions - just a note.
Battle sites:
Felzuumath's Fall (AC 452) : Located 5-6 hexes NE of Woodgate, this is where Nione fought and killed Felzuumath, who had terrorised the towns of western Wendar for many years. The victorious elves of Woodgate piled their enemies into a mound and burned them. Since that time, grass has grown over the remains, and now a fair-sized grassy hill stands alone.
King's Sorrow (AC 103): Located one hex south of the word "tower" in Lerian's Tower, this is where the elf king of Amoleth fought, and killed, his beloved cousin. Surviving accounts of the battle say that so much blood was spilled that day, that the plains had become a reddish swamp.
Ruins:
Amoleth: The ruins of Amoleth lie along the southern fringes of the forest to the east of Lerian's Tower. It its heyday, it was the capital of the kingdom of Amoleth, an elvish realm that stretched across what is now northwestern Wendar. A strong ally of the other elvish realms, its soldiers fought numerous Denagothian hordes. The Battle of King's Sorrow broke the king's spirit, and the realm began to decline thereafter. During the chaotic period surrounding the bloody campaigs of Felzuumath, the giant's armies laid the town to siege. Unable to secure aid from its neighbours, and with the garrison of Lerian's Tower unable to reach the town in time, Amoleth fell in AC 433. Most of the population was slaughtered, but a handful managed to escape and bring word to other towns and villages. Elvish fury over the loss of Amoleth united them long enough to wage a successful campaign against their enemies, ultimately leading to the Battle of Felzuumath's Fall.
Geoff
Today, Duncan's Keep is home to some 70 families, a mix of humans and elves. Their primary source of income is from woodcutting, timber export and manufacturing goods out of wood.
The local mayor is a human woman named Agnes Stellasdottir of Heldann descent. For a brief periode a few years ago, she was the lover of the proud Soderfjord warrior Emrode, when he and his companions were in town after slaying a nearby green dragon that was threatening the community.
From that relationship Agnes bore a son, who is now a little over a year old, named Axel Emrodeson. Agnes does not know where Emrode is today but hopes that he will return to Duncan's Keep one day.
Other notables in the tiny hamlet includes Baron Duncan III, grandson of the founder, whose wife died of sickness years ago before bearing him any children. The people of Duncan's Keep are loyal to their baron but realise that he is now too old to marry again and most people expect that either will the King bestow the barony upon another line or ask Baron Duncan to name one of the villagers his heir.
Most of the villagers hope that would be Agnes, but a few ambitious others are secretly working to improve their own standing with the baron. One of them is the gnome merchant Theodor Thunderburp who has made a small fortune exporting quality wooden goods to Glantri and the Heldann Freeholds. He is quite a comical figure, always making speeches at the tavern or on the village square about how "a person who has had success financially would be the best choice to secure prosperity to the entire village" and such slogans. Theodor has the odds against him, however, because for all his wealth most villagers still consider him a good-hearted clown.
The second contender is a daydreaming bard named Jonaleth Silverbrim from Darokin. He came to Duncan's Keep broke and soon learned about the local political situation. He hopes to become the next baron by woeing Agnes and marrying her, so that when she enherits the barony, he will become baron. Jonaleth is as much an amateur as Theodor but much more scheeming. He is not above sabotaging Theodor's speeches, adding to the poor gnome's ridiculous reputation.
The real threat to Duncan's Keep is from the third contender for the throne, a local elven priest of the Korrigan named Meetholan. He is the head of the local chuch and much more strict (LN) than most elves. He feels that the humans are violating nature around Duncan's Keep and because of their short lifespans and lack of inherent magic abilities inferior to elves. In short, he is a racist. If he inherits the barony, it will turn into a hagiarchy, an area ruled by holy men. And that is sure to put an end to the current prosperity and lessen the lives of humans to those of serfs.
Whatever will become of Duncan's Keep in the near future is up to the DM. Perhaps Emrode and his group will return. Perhaps another party of adventurers will come by and resolve the situation. If not, one of the three contenders will probably get the throne, and the changes will probably send ripples through Wendarian nobility all over the country,
:-) Jesper
Geoff
I agree. I'd like to place some moors somewhere in Wendar, as I noted above somewhere. There is somewhat of a shortage of moors in the Known World. ;)
More Moors! More Moors! More Moors!
'nuff said.
I decided to put Gylharen Keep on the Heldann border, at Kevar Pass, because Surewatch Keep seems like a good name for the Denagoth garrison. And I placed a mine in the mountains near the village of Kevar.
I also noticed that there is not really any suitable symbol for shrines. So for now I have improvised with a tower symbol. There is a shrine symbol in HWR3, I think, or perhaps I could design a new one, if necessary.
A tower symbol is not particularly intriguing to design shrines.
IMO you should try to make a new one. I'd like to see a symbol having a domed temple in Greek style (so 4 columns on a base and a dome upon them). Simple enough and evocative, I think ;)
Marco, I'm a little confused about the forests, because it seems to me that there are actually more than four. I marked them according to your description, although I notice that Thibault's map has the forests quite different from mine, and also the labels are in different places. He also has the northern border placed much higher than X11 and Wrath of the Immortals have it.
When I wrote my description I based myself on the picture in PWA1, which had roughly 4 forests in Wendar.
But I see your map is quite different, so we obviously need to add more...
Let's name the southernmost area Forest of Shadows/Shades (ties with Shadowmere).
We could also name the forest east of Lerian Tower the Laughing Woods (it is an ominous name actually.. it may be because the wind makes strange laughing noises when blowing through these trees, or because you can hear giggles and laughter at night...)
Then you obviously have the Kevar Woods south of Kevar and the Scarlet Temple (always talking about forests) near Surewatch Keep (the name comes from the thousands of soldiers who died in the forest defending Wendar from Denagothian invasions in the past).
Later (after AC1015) the Forest of Bounty will be divided in two halves: northern part will be renamed Forest of the Curse, and southern part will remain Forest of Bounty.
Talking of borders, does anyone have any issues with my current border? It can easily be adjusted one hex in or out at most locations, and still be roughly in line with the 24 mi per hex border. I've been thinking of adding some "bumps" along the Denagoth border, to break up the current straight line of mountains there a bit.
Actually I do... err.. where are the mountains? They seem to be cut off from Wendar? I would surmise the northern side of the Wendarian Range belongs to Wendar while the southern one to Glantri, and same goes for the Mengul Mountains (southern side to Wendar, northern side to Denagoth, eastern chain to Heldann)...
PS: I still don't see Shadowmere placed :P
I translated it into Finnish for Shawn's Vaults, and you can find it
there as "Deamon with the Saddened Countenance". It depicts the
western borders of Wendar in the early phases of settlement.
Not very consistent with canon, but perhaps you could find some ideas
there?
Ville
Aebhyrn Lwnn: A centaur settlement of a very reclusive, very militant and quite large centaur clan. It is located in the midst of the Dark Woods of Baamor, and unlike many centaur settlements - it has several stone "houses" ("stables"?) that the centaurs built for lodging. It is a well fortified community, led by the charismatic centauress Nawanne Shirvanawe. These are probably the only sentinent creatures willing to live in this forest, although no-one understands why.
Moors of Chlyras: These dark moors, at the midst of the Baamor Woods, are home to the hideous Aantkh-Nyr, a murderous and powerful nuckalavee who draws pleasure from killing the centaurs of Aebhyrn Lwnn. He tortured and killed Nawanne's beloved, the former leader of the centaurs, Cephae Wy'rnaav - and she is trying to get her revenge ever since.
Uumarne: This was a small fishing village, at the shores of Lake Phyrroe - a medium-sized lake at the southern side of the Forest of Bounty. Uumarne grew rapidly as many Alfheim refugees, as well as industrious Leprechauns from Alfheim, settled there - and turned the sleepy community into a thriving center of commerce and business.
BynFlaare Hall: Located at the dense forests of North-East Wendar, BynFlaare Hall is a haven for Mystics. Several monasteries and abbies are dispersed in between the high, thick foliage - as well as many caves, tree-houses and even "nests" for individual hermits.
Hope it helps.
I cant remember the name of the place though. Regardless of what people may think of the actual novels, it would be a good place to look for names of places since so few other sources cover the region.
Håvard
I'm going to work on adding this stuff to the map, and get the updated version posted as soon as I can. In the meantime, it's a big country and there are still some areas that could do with a village or two.
Actually, I get the feeling that we are rather short of elven villages! There are quite a few human villages, as well as a few ambiguous ones, and the towns are presumably mixed. How about some more elven villages, or mixed human/elven villages?
Another thing I've been wondering about is labels for monsters. Are there any areas which are inhabited by specific groups of humanoids or other monsters in large numbers? Of course, this subject leads us in to the surrounding areas of Denagoth and the Great Northern Wildlands too...
I'm going to reply to individual stuff later when I have more time.
A tower symbol is not particularly intriguing to design shrines.
IMO you should try to make a new one. I'd like to see a symbol having a domed temple in Greek style (so 4 columns on a base and a dome upon them). Simple enough and evocative, I think ;)
Yep, and exactly such a symbol exists in HWR3, so I will almost certainly use that one. But first I have to actually make it. :P
In actual fact, I checked last night and it seems that, aside from new symbols I might design myself, I have only HWR3's four extra symbols to do and I will be completely finished making symbols.
:D I didn't realise there were so few left to do.When I wrote my description I based myself on the picture in PWA1, which had roughly 4 forests in Wendar.
Ah, okay. That makes things a little clearer.
By the way, have you seen Thibault's Wendar map? He quotes Geoff and Christian's maps as sources, but I can't find those maps anywhere. And he has expanded Wendar's border northward, adding a huge section of forest and plains to the country. I wonder what prompted those changes, but I can't find anything fan-related to explain them.
But I see your map is quite different, so we obviously need to add more...
My map is based mainly on the X11 and Wrath of the Immortals 24 mi per hex maps, keeping the southern region of the country as it was shown in GAZ3, GAZ12 and TM1. In most respects it is very faithful to the 24 mi per hex maps, though I have creatively added extra features here and there.
Let's name the southernmost area Forest of Shadows/Shades (ties with Shadowmere).
This is cool, because I was also thinking of giving it a dark sounding name.
(I think Shadows sounds better than Shades.)We could also name the forest east of Lerian Tower the Laughing Woods (it is an ominous name actually.. it may be because the wind makes strange laughing noises when blowing through these trees, or because you can hear giggles and laughter at night...)
Sounds great.
Then you obviously have the Kevar Woods south of Kevar and the Scarlet Temple (always talking about forests) near Surewatch Keep (the name comes from the thousands of soldiers who died in the forest defending Wendar from Denagothian invasions in the past).
Actually this sounds like a great place to use the Elven name for Kevar, Kevareth. (I found reference to it in a mysterious Elven song in X11.) So "Kevareth Woods" or "Woods of Kevareth".
Is the Scarlet Temple an actual temple, or a shrine, or what? It sounds like a temple/shrine in honour of those who died in defence of the realm.
Later (after AC1015) the Forest of Bounty will be divided in two halves: northern part will be renamed Forest of the Curse, and southern part will remain Forest of Bounty.
Okay, but I won't be making maps for that era for quite a long time yet - unless I get any specific requests, that is.
Actually I do... err.. where are the mountains? They seem to be cut off from Wendar? I would surmise the northern side of the Wendarian Range belongs to Wendar while the southern one to Glantri, and same goes for the Mengul Mountains (southern side to Wendar, northern side to Denagoth, eastern chain to Heldann)...
The answer to this is that Wendar apparently has very little interest in mountainous ground. :P
Seriously, the original X11 map showed no mountains inside Wendarian territories. The Mengul Mountains are said to be within Denagoth's borders, but in fact largely unclaimed - i.e. infested with humanoids, namely orcs by the sound of things.
Wrath of the Immortals expanded the border to include the mountains north of the Kevar Hills, but when it comes to borders I'm afraid the Wrath of the Immortals map holds absolutely no conviction, because it has huge errors in all of its borders.
As for the southern border, that was laid out in GAZ3 many years ago, and it would require some major changes to the Glantrian map to give some of the Wendarian Range to Wendar.
It seems to me that it really is simpler just to concede that Wendar really doesn't have any use for mountains. The Menguls are out of the question because they are overrun with humanoids, and almost impassable to boot. The Wendarian Range is claimed by Glantri, and Glantrian wizards in search of isolation would seem to have a much better claim to that region than forest-loving Wendarians.
But if you have some counter-arguments to that, I will be happy to change the borders. ;)
PS: I still don't see Shadowmere placed :P
That's because I don't know exactly where to put it - I am as we speak in the middle of reading Dragonlord of Mystara for the first time, having acquired it recently, so I'm actually trying to avoid spoilers for the trilogy at the moment. :P
The discussion about mountains and borders has reminded me about something I've been considering lately. What are Wendar's relations with its neighbours? Where are the danger points on its borders, and does it have any kind of fortifications? Does it have to worry about invasions from Denagoth and the Menguls solely through Surewatch Keep and the mountain pass there, or are there minor orc or monster raids from other parts of the Menguls?
How about the Glantri border, and Elven Pass? Are there incursions from the Wendarian Range, by monsters or something else? That could be one reason why the Forest of Shadows got its name.
Lastly, what about the adjacent Adri Varma Plateau and the open region to the north? The plateau could form a natural barrier to any invasions, thus making that area of the country rather quieter and safer than most other borders. Alternatively, nasty monsters could occasionally come down from the plateau. Either way, it seems that fortifications and border guards will not really be necessary there. As for the far north, the Baamor Woods are a formidable entity of darkness covering half the northern border. I have considered placing a ring of towers round the edges to watch the forest.
By the way, have you seen Thibault's Wendar map? He quotes Geoff and Christian's maps as sources, but I can't find those maps anywhere. And he has expanded Wendar's border northward, adding a huge section of forest and plains to the country. I wonder what prompted those changes, but I can't find anything fan-related to explain them.
Nope, I have not seen it. If I may add my 2 cents, probably he is referring to Geoff's map of Wendar and Denagoth, which I HAVE seen and it was really well done (hand-drawn)! Unfortunately it was huge! :P
I don't remember if it is still online somewhere.
I never saw a map of Wendar drawn by Christian, however... IIRC He focused on the Midlands.
My map is based mainly on the X11 and Wrath of the Immortals 24 mi per hex maps, keeping the southern region of the country as it was shown in GAZ3, GAZ12 and TM1. In most respects it is very faithful to the 24 mi per hex maps, though I have creatively added extra features here and there.
So you're saying there are no mountains within the Wendarian borders?? Seems pretty strange to me, but I guess I'll have to recheck those sources..
Actually this sounds like a great place to use the Elven name for Kevar, Kevareth. (I found reference to it in a mysterious Elven song in X11.) So "Kevareth Woods" or "Woods of Kevareth".
Kevareth Woods sounds good.
Is the Scarlet Temple an actual temple, or a shrine, or what? It sounds like a temple/shrine in honour of those who died in defence of the realm.
I knew it would have caused confusion. Actually I was referring to the whole forest, not to a specific temple. I wanted to use something different than the usual "forest" or "woods", so I went with Temple because the forest really resembles a temple: the trunks are pillars, and the branches up there are the roof. Scarlet Temple is the forest, and it's scarlet because the blood of all the people who died there has somehow incarnadined parts of the trees and the grass.
But I am open to new suggestions for synonims of "forest" in this case ;)
Seriously, the original X11 map showed no mountains inside Wendarian territories. The Mengul Mountains are said to be within Denagoth's borders, but in fact largely unclaimed - i.e. infested with humanoids, namely orcs by the sound of things.
Well, even the ORclands are inside Darokin's border, but they're unsettled and inhabited by humanoids. This has nothing to do with geopolitical borders. I would like you to include those mountains which should be inside Wendar's borders, even if they're unsettled (like most of mountains inside ANY nation) ;)
Wrath of the Immortals expanded the border to include the mountains north of the Kevar Hills, but when it comes to borders I'm afraid the Wrath of the Immortals map holds absolutely no conviction, because it has huge errors in all of its borders.
But since they're unsettled, why leaving them to Heldann or whatever? If they're claimed by Wendar, you should put them inside Wendar's borders ;)
As for the southern border, that was laid out in GAZ3 many years ago, and it would require some major changes to the Glantrian map to give some of the Wendarian Range to Wendar.
IIRC Glantri's northern border didn't encompass all of the Wendarian range, just the southern part, that's why I brought up this issue.. Guess I'll have to go and see the map by myself to refresh my memory then
That's because I don't know exactly where to put it - I am as we speak in the middle of reading Dragonlord of Mystara for the first time, having acquired it recently, so I'm actually trying to avoid spoilers for the trilogy at the moment. :P
Okay then I'll wait for you to finish reading it. However, I absolutely need you to write a review of that book coz it may have some significant info on the Sun Dragon, Diamond, and I need them!!
The discussion about mountains and borders has reminded me about something I've been considering lately. What are Wendar's relations with its neighbours? Where are the danger points on its borders, and does it have any kind of fortifications? Does it have to worry about invasions from Denagoth and the Menguls solely through Surewatch Keep and the mountain pass there, or are there minor orc or monster raids from other parts of the Menguls?
Wendar's northern border is constantly watched and garrisoned, because the worst problems come and have always come from Denagoth. Luckily, there are only few passes that can be used by the Denagothians to effectively march inside Wendar without risking too many casualties on the trip, so these are well guarded.
Surewatch Keep is located on the widest road to Denagoth, but I would add another Keep somewhere south-eastwards. That could be Gylharen Keep I was talking about in the MA, between Dalvarhofn and Gelhardon.
The Wendarians have had little troubles with the neighbouring Heldanners in the past two centuries, just a record of quick raids which are normal among the northmen. But the northmen have come to fear and respect the elves during the centuries, so only the hotheads dare try something against Wendar, and this keeps problems to the minimum. The keep built in this region (which you listed as Gylharen Keep) is intended to oversee the region and halt any likely raid from humanoids and humans alike. I'd call it Hawk's Gate or Falcon's Nest, something along this way, to stress the fact that these soldiers are expert falconeers.
Unfortunately, with the Heldannic Knights overtaking Heldann in AC 957, the relationship has become more tense, and Gylharen must have reinforced the garrison in that region. The Knights are not to be taken lightly, even when they are polite. ;)
How about the Glantri border, and Elven Pass? Are there incursions from the Wendarian Range, by monsters or something else? That could be one reason why the Forest of Shadows got its name.
The relationships between Glantri and Wendar have been peaceful and trade is abundant since the IX century, when things in Glantri stabilized.
The Elven Pass is the only direct route through the Wendarian Range that connects the two nations, otherwise one has to travel along the Adri-Varma's eastern border to go from Glantri to Wendar without risking getting lost in the mountains.
However, there are several humanoid tribes living in the mounts, so I believe there must be some sort of fortress here, also to check in foreigners who step inside Wendar's border. Let's build a castle or a tower there and name it after some elven hero or something linked to the elves (since there's the Elven Pass). Everway Tower or Tower of the Overseer or Radiant Tower (in contrast with Forest of Shadows)...
The origin of the name of the Forest of Shadows is not yet clear in my mind for now, but it must have something to do with necromancy..
Lastly, what about the adjacent Adri Varma Plateau and the open region to the north? The plateau could form a natural barrier to any invasions, thus making that area of the country rather quieter and safer than most other borders. Alternatively, nasty monsters could occasionally come down from the plateau. Either way, it seems that fortifications and border guards will not really be necessary there. As for the far north, the Baamor Woods are a formidable entity of darkness covering half the northern border. I have considered placing a ring of towers round the edges to watch the forest.
The Baamor Woods and the Laughing Woods are a real barrier on the north-western border, and the Wendarians would never expect an invasion force marching through them to get inside Wendar, so there should not be keeps built there.
Likewise, since the malicious effects of the Baamor Woods are so feared, even settling next to it is not encouraged. For this reason I would place only a tower or two, a bit far from the border of the Baamor Woods, to be used as observation points to keep the situation in check. Lerian's Tower is one of these towers, and the most dangerous assignment for any soldier (that's why It is manned only by elves, who have better resistance to magic).
You could put another one in place of the Shrine of Nione, to guard Woodgate, and call it the Tower of Twilight.
I would move the Shrine of Nione much more northwards, since it's been built where an elfin has defeated a giant. I'd place it not too far from Surewatch Keep, some hexes left to it, or in the south, south-west of Oakwall (we leave out the reference to the Denagothians and suppose that the giant was acting on his own, leading his tribe out of the Wendarian Range).
Finally, I'd place another keep or fortress, manned by elves, to guard the entrance from the Adri Varma plateau and the lowland region between the Forest of Bounty and the Woods of Baamor (another hot spot), and have a road go from Woodgate to the Adri varma region through this lowland. After all, we can see a trail going along the Adri Varma eastern border that connects Glantri to the north, IIRC it's in gAZ3 or CotM map.
The stronghold will be a typical elven one, built partly upon the trees (remember the drawing in the Expert set?), on the outer fringes of the Forest of Bounty, and we could call it with an elven name (Aelythnar or something similar, meaning Watchful Guardian) and call the lowland the Shunned Plains.
These are my advices for now.
Very interesting discussion, btw: a nice way of fleshing out Wendar ;)
I was just thinking, that even though all these places can't make it onto the map itself, they could all end up on the Vaults helping to expand this remote region. So, with that in mind, don't stop if you got some more cool ideas!!! ;)
yep I'd thought the same thing too Hugin
I need you to place NINE shrines, each one dedicated to each one of the Korrigans, all around Wendar inside the forests (except for the Baamor Woods). Basically what really keeps Wendar safe from Denagoth is the Elvenstar working in team with these 9 wells of powers, which spin a protective magical web around Wendar. That's how the Korrigans enchanted their land in a unique way and completed their path to immortality.
hope I've made myself clear ;)
Regards,
Gary
Funny coincidence to have two realms with the same name uh?... or as Vizzini would say, "UNCONCEIVABLE!"
:D
NEVER ever heard of them until today.
Funny coincidence to have two realms with the same name uh?... or as Vizzini would say, "UNCONCEIVABLE!"
:D
Me neither.
And Marco -
NEVER ever heard of them until today.
Funny coincidence to have two realms with the same name uh?... or as Vizzini would say, "UNCONCEIVABLE!"
:D
"You keep using that word. I dunna think it means what you think it means."
"I don't mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?"
Ah, you gotta love it :D
I wrote a short adventure years ago for a Finnish RPG fanzine.
I translated it into Finnish for Shawn's Vaults, and you can find it
there as "Deamon with the Saddened Countenance". It depicts the
western borders of Wendar in the early phases of settlement.
Not very consistent with canon, but perhaps you could find some ideas
there?
I had a glance at your adventure earlier, and it looked very promising. When I have more time I'll have a more thorough look. Was there anything specific that I could add to the map? There really is almost no official info on Wendar anyway, so anything should be okay.
Is it too late to submit settlement ideas? If not...
It's never too late! :D Seriously, I'm going to be doing this for a lot of areas, so anything that doesn't fit in here can be used elsewhere. So please post your ideas with wild abandon! ;)
Aebhyrn Lwnn
I like the idea of one or two non-human (and non-elven) settlements.
Moors of Chlyras
I placed these on the northern border, the idea being that there will be a little more over the border.
Uumarne and Lake Phyrroe
Okay, I worked out that we can add water features as long as they are less than a 24 mile hex in size. So small lakes, with short, small rivers, are a possibility. Check out the latest version of the map for an example!
BynFlaare Hall
Great work, thanks!
I'm starting to get a little concerned about the different styles of naming we have, though... Maybe at the end we should look over the names and try to revise them so they fit together better.
Tower of Anorion (located in the westernmost woods - would it be possible to put the ruins on a corrupted forest hex?)
It seemed strange with just the tile underneath being dead, so I put it on the edge of the forest, with the adjacent trees all dead. It certainly makes things look more interesting!
By the way, with both this and Brethiliath, my Tolkien alarm is going off loudly... :P (The "Tower of Anarion" = Minas Anor/Minas Tirith, and Brethil is an erea in Beleriand...)
Dawnblossom-Qvar
Great idea, but the south-eastern area is getting pretty full. Would you mind if I put them at the edge of the hills in the southwest? There's nothing around there at all yet...
Nope, I have not seen it. If I may add my 2 cents, probably he is referring to Geoff's map of Wendar and Denagoth, which I HAVE seen and it was really well done (hand-drawn)! Unfortunately it was huge! :P
I don't remember if it is still online somewhere.
I never saw a map of Wendar drawn by Christian, however... IIRC He focused on the Midlands.
Yep, I have Geoff's Denagoth map. It's very nice indeed, and I plan to pilfer everything from it for my Denagoth map very soon. :D
So you're saying there are no mountains within the Wendarian borders?? Seems pretty strange to me, but I guess I'll have to recheck those sources..
Yes, that is correct.
Well, even the ORclands are inside Darokin's border, but they're unsettled and inhabited by humanoids. This has nothing to do with geopolitical borders. I would like you to include those mountains which should be inside Wendar's borders, even if they're unsettled (like most of mountains inside ANY nation) ;)
But since they're unsettled, why leaving them to Heldann or whatever? If they're claimed by Wendar, you should put them inside Wendar's borders ;)
IIRC Glantri's northern border didn't encompass all of the Wendarian range, just the southern part, that's why I brought up this issue.. Guess I'll have to go and see the map by myself to refresh my memory then
I know what you're getting at, but all the sources except for the Wrath of the Immortals map point to the borders being as I have marked them. That means GAZ3's map, GAZ12's map, TM1, Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, and X11 (map AND text). As I already noted, the Wrath map is an invalid source, because it rewrites the borders for the entire map, with no reference to previous sources.
So basically we have the southern mountains claimed by Glantri, and the Mengul Mountains claimed by Denagoth. The only mountains claimed by Wendar - according to official sources - are in the extreme southeast, near the Heldann border. Including the pass which leads into Heldann.
Go and check the maps, and you'll see what I mean.
Marco, since the forest is quite small, I have gone with "Scarlet Groves" for now. Any good?
Okay then I'll wait for you to finish reading it. However, I absolutely need you to write a review of that book coz it may have some significant info on the Sun Dragon, Diamond, and I need them!!
It's a promise.
You could put another one in place of the Shrine of Nione, to guard Woodgate, and call it the Tower of Twilight.
I would move the Shrine of Nione much more northwards, since it's been built where an elfin has defeated a giant. I'd place it not too far from Surewatch Keep, some hexes left to it, or in the south, south-west of Oakwall (we leave out the reference to the Denagothians and suppose that the giant was acting on his own, leading his tribe out of the Wendarian Range).
As Geoff wrote it, the Shrine of Nione was an attraction of Woodgate. And it does seem nice to keep up the continuous Denagoth connection. But then I agree that it would make more sense to put it closer to the Denagoth border. (Although note where the final battle was.)
I have moved the Shrine to a location between the battlefield and Woodgate, which I think is the best solution. (Also note the icon - I finished the HWR3 icons tonight specially for you, Marco! ;) :P )
Finally, I'd place another keep or fortress, manned by elves, to guard the entrance from the Adri Varma plateau and the lowland region between the Forest of Bounty and the Woods of Baamor (another hot spot), and have a road go from Woodgate to the Adri varma region through this lowland.
Where exactly do you mean? The Adri Varma Plateau actually curves away westwards before the northern border, so the gap north of Woodgate doesn't actually lead to the plateau. It could conceivably lead to the northern part of the plateau I suppose, because the northern edge of the plateau slopes gradually down to ground level.
These are my advices for now.
Very interesting discussion, btw: a nice way of fleshing out Wendar ;)
I agree, it's a lot of fun too!
Thanks everyone for your input today. I have just uploaded the latest revision of the map, so please have a look on the first page of this thread. Tomorrow I will be making more adjustments, so if there are any more ideas, please keep them coming.
PS - Marco, any requests for rough locations for the Korrigans' shrines? I think they are the only thing I didn't add today, along with the dwarf-halfing town. Don't worry, I won't forget any of these things!
First of all: great work Thorf! Your maps are amazing! And watching how your secret project proceeds is intriguing - as seeing Wendar live for the first time!
And now some questions for everyone:
a) Has the government of Wendar ever been detailed? That is, what type of monarchy Wendar is? A feudal one, like Karameikos - with baronies, counties, etc.? Perhaps feudal domains for Heldannic people and something more "Alfheimish" for the elves? If there are any domains, what about placing some borders inside Wendar 8-miles map? I'm aware there are already risks of crowding it...
b) Are the names of the nine Korrigans known? If not, they should be assigned in order to name the shrines that DM suggested.
Hallo everyone!
First of all: great work Thorf! Your maps are amazing! And watching how your secret project proceeds is intriguing - as seeing Wendar live for the first time!
Hi! And thanks. :D I'm enjoying all this a lot too.
a) Has the government of Wendar ever been detailed? That is, what type of monarchy Wendar is? A feudal one, like Karameikos - with baronies, counties, etc.? Perhaps feudal domains for Heldannic people and something more "Alfheimish" for the elves? If there are any domains, what about placing some borders inside Wendar 8-miles map? I'm aware there are already risks of crowding it...
No, the government hasn't been detailed to any degree - only mention of the Wizard-King, really, and not much more.
Personally I would prefer to see a system where the humans and elves are a little more closely knit than everyone seems to be suggesting. Segregating them is okay, but having them living together peacefully seems more interesting if you ask me.
As for borders, we could certainly add some dominion or regional borders into the map without much problem. But I'm not sure that we need them, because Wendar seems to be naturally divided up by its forests anyway. It might be a better idea to add in a few more labels for the remaining un-named areas, and leave them defined solely by the terrain.
b) Are the names of the nine Korrigans known? If not, they should be assigned in order to name the shrines that DM suggested.
I don't recall ever hearing the names, but I agree they would be the logical choice for shrine names. And we definitely need shrine names! (Hint, hint, Marco... ;) )
It's never too late! :D Seriously, I'm going to be doing this for a lot of areas, so anything that doesn't fit in here can be used elsewhere. So please post your ideas with wild abandon! ;)
Thanks! It is quite thrilling to see all of these on the maps. Wow.
Okay, I worked out that we can add water features as long as they are less than a 24 mile hex in size. So small lakes, with short, small rivers, are a possibility. Check out the latest version of the map for an example!
Looking good.
I'm starting to get a little concerned about the different styles of naming we have, though... Maybe at the end we should look over the names and try to revise them so they fit together better.
I agree. We probably should think of "Elven", "Human" (both Dun and Antalian) and "Mixed" names to classify settlements by.
Great idea, but the south-eastern area is getting pretty full. Would you mind if I put them at the edge of the hills in the southwest? There's nothing around there at all yet...
Sure. Does it make sense that the hin and dwarves would arrive to the Southwest from Glantri?
Again, Thanks!
Sure. Does it make sense that the hin and dwarves would arrive to the Southwest from Glantri?
Maybe they fled to Wendar to escape the Glantri persecution. ;) And they could now be an 'underground railroad' helping people escape Glantri, as well as sending agents into Glantri to try and change the populance's atitude to hin and dwarves.
Gary
No, the government hasn't been detailed to any degree - only mention of the Wizard-King, really, and not much more.
Some time ago, Marco, Shawn and I started up an informal project to write a Gazetteer for Wendar. Although we didn't get too far, I kept all the info in .doc format (including material discussed over email). We never really got to the topic of governance, but one idea we did have was that each full-fledged town would have a headman/burgomeister who ran it in conjunction with a civic government (i.e., the town was actually incorporated, IIRC, and had elves and humans in its governing council). This system of municipal government could be extended to the villages. Extending the original ideas a bit, the leader of each town/village would advise the king on matters relating directly to that settlement (i.e., crop yields, local diseases, banditry, etc.), but national matters would be decided by the king, with the advice of his own officials.
Off the top of my head.....
Perhaps the king would hold a "parliament" of sorts (perhaps modelled on traditional elvish clan councils) a few times per year, during which the town and village leaders go to Wendar City to raise important matters with the king (who is obligated to provide a response before the session ends), and to pose questions about his policies and plans. In the interests of maintaining stability, the king could be open about anything not deemed a military secret, or anything related to Denagoth. It is during these meetings that the king's advisors could develop budgets (based on what town and village heads are saying about taxes, the health of businesses, trade, etc.) and develop priorities for spending (i.e., if Oakwall's leader is having a problem with bandits, more money might be allocated to increase the garrison there, etc.)
Personally I would prefer to see a system where the humans and elves are a little more closely knit than everyone seems to be suggesting. Segregating them is okay, but having them living together peacefully seems more interesting if you ask me.
I agree.
Geoff
It seemed strange with just the tile underneath being dead, so I put it on the edge of the forest, with the adjacent trees all dead. It certainly makes things look more interesting!
By the way, with both this and Brethiliath, my Tolkien alarm is going off loudly... :P (The "Tower of Anarion" = Minas Anor/Minas Tirith, and Brethil is an erea in Beleriand...)
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery to the masters. In all seriousness, though, Tolkien developed a great body of linguistics for his works, why not use it? TSR already set things in motion, IMO, by having Wendar be named Genalleth in elvish - Lothenar, Mengul, Gereth Minar, and Geffron also sound Tolkienseque IMO. In fact, I think that might have been designed that way - Denagoth seems quite analagous to Mordor (surrounded by fearsome mountains, too!), while Wendar seems to be a mix of Tolkien's elvish realms.At any rate, whenever I do use Tolkienseque wording, I try to ensure it makes some sense. I was wondering when someone would notice, though. ;)
Yep, I have Geoff's Denagoth map. It's very nice indeed, and I plan to pilfer everything from it for my Denagoth map very soon. :D
I look very much to seeing it! I can't thank Marco enough for his input on that one. Next to Davania, Denagoth was one of the hardest maps to do - but also a very rewarding one. One thing to remember, though, Aeleris' Pits didn't exist as of AC 1000, so it should have a regular forest hex there - otherwise I'd suggest a bad magic point.
Geoff
Wow, I had an early night last night, and wake up this morning to find all this! There are some great ideas here. Wonderful!
And thank you for updating the map - it truly looks wonderful! Would that I could print it on a large piece of paper....
Actually, I get the feeling that we are rather short of elven villages! There are quite a few human villages, as well as a few ambiguous ones, and the towns are presumably mixed. How about some more elven villages, or mixed human/elven villages?
Good point, more on the way, then. I would note that Yngvarsvall could be a mixed settlement (with human majority of 70-80%), due to the number of soldiers who pass through it to and from Lerian's Tower - some might opt to settle down. For those who allow half-elves in their campaigns, a fair percentage of the village's humans (perhaps up to 25%) could be reclassified as half-elves (again, due to the number of elvish soldiers who pass through...)
On the issue of the northern border (and Thib's map), how about this:
At various times in the past, the elves have claimed the northern wildlands for their own, some undertaking the perilous task of settling the dark forests and building strongholds. In times of prosperity, new realms were carved out of the wilderness, and the border crept northwards. In darker times, evil things swept down from the Mengul Mountains, and from the fearsome Adri Varma Plateau, and in their wake there was nothing but ruined fortresses and towns, and streams of refugees fleeing south, telling their brethren of the horrors that stalked them. Even during the worst times, the heartlands in the south remained free for the most part, made secure by a network of fortresses and towers, but always the wildlands beckoned, promising fantastic things to those with the strength and courage to find them.
Gylharen, wishing to usher in a new era of strength for Wendar, has called on the bravest souls - human and elven - to cross the frontier into the wildlands, and retake that which was lost many times before. This time, Gylharen has the Elvenstone, and the guidance of the Korrigans, to strengthen him. Legends abound of lost elven cities, hidden deep in forbidding ancient forests, filled with priceless lore and treasures: many-towered Soreth, Thalion, with its bridge of unsurpassing beauty, and silver-domed Nimbeth. All were built and held by the elves in times past, and, perhaps, they might be retaken by the men and elves of modern Wendar.
Perhaps the best thing to do would be to draw a map based on Thib's work, but populate it with interesting sites (bad/good magic points, ruins), as well as known monster lairs - maybe a dragon?
Geoff
There are a couple of good articles at the Vaults about the elvish language, done by Jonathan Nolan on the MML a long time ago-
Wendarian
Elven Language
I tend to use these quite a bit when fleshing out elvish names and languages, even though I disagree a bit with some of the transliterations. In particular, his Wendarian language doesn't incorporate the elvish words that Geoff refers to from X11 (Genalleth, Kevareth, etc.). He comes up with a completely different origin for the name of the realm- though a compromise between the two is easily found.
I also refer to Tolkien quite a bit in reference to Wendar/Denagoth, as Geoff also suggests here. There isn't a direct connection to be made, but it can serve as a guideline. For instance, when trying to figure out the origins of the tower of Gereth Minar, I compared it to the tower of Minas Tirith- very similar words, though switched around- and tried to devise the origins of the language based on that.
As for the elves and humans of Wendar, that was always kind of an interesting situation. From what I gather from X11 (I'm missing the first two pages, sadly), the two races are pretty well intermingled. I always got the impression that Bensarian was supposed to be a half-elf, for that matter. I wouldn't be surprised to see half-elves from Wendar- the "legendary" half-elves that Thelven Fox-Eyes (from the Dragon* series) was mistaken for were thought to have come from the north, as well, IIRC.
(Gylharen was an interesting problem, as he seems clearly human from his description in X11, but is later changed to elvish in the Trail Maps and later products. Which would have been fine, if one supposed that perhaps Gylharen was a title or something, but then PWA1010 made Gylharen the original, and long-lived, ruler. Shawn and Marco came up with a very interesting solution to the dilemma, though.)
Laurianta (located in light forest, ideally next to a small stream/river): Laurianta is a properous elven village, made so by virtue of the fast-flowing Laure ("Golden" to the humans) River (so named because of extensive deposits of iron pyrite (fools' gold) in the riverbed rocks, which catch the sun's rays and glow warmly in the water). The industrious villagers have built several water wheels to operate their mills, saws (the wood from Laurianta is recognised for its quality, and some of the finest furniture is made here), and other enterprises. In so doing, they manage to produce as much many larger villages, while having plenty of time for leisure. Outsiders claim that the Laurianta is so named because elves built a bridge of gold, but the village's name, in fact, stems from the fact that the Laure is a dangerous river to ford for the unwary - this place is one of the few safe places to cross it, and the village grew up around the sturdy bridge that was built here centuries ago.
Geoff
one idea we did have was that each full-fledged town would have a headman/burgomeister who ran it in conjunction with a civic government (i.e., the town was actually incorporated, IIRC, and had elves and humans in its governing council). This system of municipal government could be extended to the villages.
Nice! The village headman could be a rich/influential local landowner/noble (in the plains), an elven lord (in the forests) or a loyal person chosen by the king (in critical areas).
Perhaps the king would hold a "parliament" of sorts (perhaps modelled on traditional elvish clan councils) a few times per year, during which the town and village leaders go to Wendar City to raise important matters with the king (who is obligated to provide a response before the session ends), and to pose questions about his policies and plans.
I like this very much! The parliament could be indeed imagined as a sort of late middle-age German/Eastern European "Dieta" or French "States-General", i.e. an assembly not-to-strictly divided by class, in which one could find rapresentatives of the landowners, the townspeople, the forest communities and perhaps in smaller number the druids, the priests of the Korrigans, the demihuman (centaur and the like) population, etc.
Another thought: most of the land in Wendar could belong to the crown or to the clans (the forests above all), while the remaining land would be in the hands of the low nobility (elven and human alike).
Sorry if I went a little off-topic...:P
Well, you request from me a name for all of the Nine Korrigans, uh? it's something that I considered doing all the time, but I never finalized my thoughts.
I know for sure just that I planned on naming them in a way similar to the Nine Svartalven quoted in GAZ7, in order to cast a thin line between the norse elven mythoi and Wendar's own legends.
Another idea I had was to tie them to different fields of magic or in general to different crafts, so that each one could have been associated with a different portfolio and I would have used nicknames (say one is the Hunter, another is the Scholar, another is the Healer, etc.. I'd obviously use some kind of colorful adjective too to design each Korrigan)
I'll get back to you with something more consistent next time, since I'm still pondering the different solutions.
PS 4 Thorf: Scarlet Groves is great ;)
And I too believe that we should check out the village names once we're finished, cause it seems to me we've got a very wide spectre of linguistic influences there ;)
PPS: please do not give in to your inner Tolkien fanboy and resist the temptation to turn Wendar and Denagoth into Middle Earth. Inspiration is okay, a carbon copy is just dull ;)
Regarding the nicknames, it seems to me that they could be used as the names for the shrines: Shrine of the Hunter, Shrine of the Healer, Shrine of the Scholar, Shrine of the Warrior, Shrine of the Priest, Shrine of the Merchant, etc. I don't know which professions you want to choose, though. (Maybe the three I said as examples are not appropriate, I don't know.)
Regarding Tolkien, I am actually a huge fan, but I like to keep my Tolkien as separate as possible from Mystara. ;) A little chance resemblance is okay, but go too far and things start to get a bit strange, I think.
I need to catch up on this thread, I just noticed there are a few posts I missed. I'll try to find time as soon as I can.
Oh and another thing: I believe it should be added a road from Gylharen Keep to Wendar City.
Also, I have always thought Sylvair to be the most populated "elven" town in Wendar, and as such I'd like to to be closer to the Korrigans Forest.
As for Wendar's history, the elven patrons of the nation are recognized both by humans and elves alike, so if you want to name them you should simply choose something "elvish" in style and you have it. I also make you note that many elven geographical names are strictly coming from Anglo-Saxon or Norse (Evergrun, Grunland, Alfheim, etc..)
I'd prefer to leave them unnamed anyway, assigning a ROLE to each one. Then you may have "the Green Hunter" as the Human tongue translation of the elven word Olayan'thiar. So Olayan'thiar may sound as an elven name, where in fact it is just a nickname or a designative term (Green Hunter).
Some proposals:
Hunter (Green, Silver, Stealthy, Relentless, Silent, Lone)
Healer (Wondrous, Pious, Compassionate, Merciful, Holy)
Savant/Scholar (Wise, Lone, Eldritch, Grey, White)
Warrior (Bright, Brave, Holy, Indomitable, Ultimate... :D pardon the pun!)
Beastmaster (...)
....
bring em on!
I'd prefer to leave them unnamed anyway, assigning a ROLE to each one. Then you may have "the Green Hunter" as the Human tongue translation of the elven word Olayan'thiar. So Olayan'thiar may sound as an elven name, where in fact it is just a nickname or a designative term (Green Hunter).
What you propose is a good solution: no individual elven names, only elven nicknames. The collective name of "Korrigans" with whom they're worshipped keeps in line with their "collective" origin, since they all gained immortality together (and that was an unique event in Immortal history, right DM? ;) ). The absence of names stresses the importance the Korrigans assign to co-operation over self-interest.
For what concerns the portfolio of each Korrigan, I think something of undeniable elven would be better; the Heldannic people have their own Norse immortals after all, even if the pay reverence to elven immortals also.
IMHO the roles of "the priest" or "the merchant" sound too much human.
Some other proposals (with possible portfolios):
Rainbow Singer (song, music, poetry, bards)
Silver Carver (arts, beauty, crafting)
Spring Maiden (waterfalls, rivers, ponds and lakes)
Tree Speaker (trees, plants, vegetation)
Watchful Seer (stars, dreams, moon, divination)
And thank you for updating the map - it truly looks wonderful! Would that I could print it on a large piece of paper....
I've been wondering about this for a while now. My father has a rather large inkjet printer for printing photos, and I am definitely considering getting my brother to print out some maps for me on that. Unfortunately, it's halfway across the world from where I live. ;)
Another option would be to go to a photography shop and see if you could get it printed there. I'm definitely considering this one, although large sizes would cost the earth.
On the issue of the northern border (and Thib's map), how about this:
At various times in the past, the elves have claimed the northern wildlands for their own, some undertaking the perilous task of settling the dark forests and building strongholds. In times of prosperity, new realms were carved out of the wilderness, and the border crept northwards. In darker times, evil things swept down from the Mengul Mountains, and from the fearsome Adri Varma Plateau, and in their wake there was nothing but ruined fortresses and towns, and streams of refugees fleeing south, telling their brethren of the horrors that stalked them. Even during the worst times, the heartlands in the south remained free for the most part, made secure by a network of fortresses and towers, but always the wildlands beckoned, promising fantastic things to those with the strength and courage to find them.
Gylharen, wishing to usher in a new era of strength for Wendar, has called on the bravest souls - human and elven - to cross the frontier into the wildlands, and retake that which was lost many times before. This time, Gylharen has the Elvenstone, and the guidance of the Korrigans, to strengthen him. Legends abound of lost elven cities, hidden deep in forbidding ancient forests, filled with priceless lore and treasures: many-towered Soreth, Thalion, with its bridge of unsurpassing beauty, and silver-domed Nimbeth. All were built and held by the elves in times past, and, perhaps, they might be retaken by the men and elves of modern Wendar.
Perhaps the best thing to do would be to draw a map based on Thib's work, but populate it with interesting sites (bad/good magic points, ruins), as well as known monster lairs - maybe a dragon?
This is an excellent basis for doing such a map to cover the area north of Wendar. It actually doesn't have to be very full, and you've already presented more than enough ruins and such to stock it, so I'll have to have a go and see what I come up with. :D
The further north you go the less official sources there are to rely on...
PSSSST... hey Thorf, you still need to change the Kevar Hills into Kevareth Hills ;)
I had forgotten a label there, but it was the Kevareth Woods, remember? I've added it in now.
I have also tentatively placed the Shrines of the Korrigans around the nation, with placeholder names. Since the idea is that they form a magical protection web, I tried to put them all around the borders of Wendar (thus handily explaining why Wendar hasn't managed to successfully expand past the northern border). The remaining shrines were placed in the middle of the nation to form the centre of the web in the Enchanted Forest and of course the Korrigan Forest.
Any and all of the shrines are open for movement, so if you see a better location for any of them, please tell me. I'd like to try to keep them balanced around the nation, though.
Oh and another thing: I believe it should be added a road from Gylharen Keep to Wendar City.
Yep, I also wanted to place a trail to the Keep, but I couldn't decide which route would be best, so I didn't put it on. I've added on quite a few more trails now, but please tell me if there are any more changes or additions I should make.
Also, I have always thought Sylvair to be the most populated "elven" town in Wendar, and as such I'd like to to be closer to the Korrigans Forest.
My hands are tied here, because I'd like to try to keep the four main towns in the same general locations as the source maps. What I can do is add some forest around Sylvair. I added a few hexes, but we could add a fair bit more and make it into a town in its own little forest, if you like.
As for Wendar's history, the elven patrons of the nation are recognized both by humans and elves alike, so if you want to name them you should simply choose something "elvish" in style and you have it. I also make you note that many elven geographical names are strictly coming from Anglo-Saxon or Norse (Evergrun, Grunland, Alfheim, etc..)
Hmm, this makes me wonder... have you worked on a list of Immortals worshipped in Wendar, or an outline of the churches there? I don't recall seeing one, but it could be useful. Consider yourself requested!! :D
What you propose is a good solution: no individual elven names, only elven nicknames. The collective name of "Korrigans" with whom they're worshipped keeps in line with their "collective" origin, since they all gained immortality together (and that was an unique event in Immortal history, right DM? ;) ). The absence of names stresses the importance the Korrigans assign to co-operation over self-interest.
Exactly my point, very good Zendrolion!
The Korrigans are unique in Immortal history since they gained immortality all together by refusing to fight with one another for supremacy and instead ascended as a unique "mind" despite having different personalities.
On the same level, the Twelve Watchers are also unique because a single person developed different personalities and was able to undertake the Path of the Polymath WITHOUT being reincarnated but leading different parallel lives at the same time in the same body. ;)
You've got some good proposals, Zendrolion, so I'm stealing some of them to complete the list of the nine Korrigans as follows:
Rainbow Singer (music, poetry, lore, illusion, fun)
Silver Carver (arts, beauty, crafting)
Spring Maiden (waterfalls, rivers, ponds and lakes)
Verdant Caretaker (trees, plants, vegetation)
Silent Hunter (hunting, stealth, animals)
Merciful Healer (healing, medicine, compassion)
Fiery Champion (battle, fire, sun, honor, loyalty)
Dreaming Seer (stars, dreams, divination)
Eternal Wanderer (travels, adventure, discovery)
There might be a Tenth Korrigan who didn't become immortal and took instead a much darker aspect... nough said for now anyway
:P 
There might be a Tenth Korrigan who didn't become immortal and took instead a much darker aspect... nough said for now anyway
Is this related to the Forest of Shadows by any chance? :D
Do you want me to go ahead and add the names to the shrines? And do you have any preference for which is which?
As for the name of the shrines, I'd like to have these:
Fiery Champion in the Scarlet Groves
Eternal Wanderer near the Everway Tower
Spring Maiden in the southern Forest of Bounty (next to the river's wells)
Dreaming Seer in the Laughing Woods
Merciful Healer in the Enchanted Forest
Silent Hunter in the northern part of the Forest of Bounty
Silver Carver in the Korrigan Forest next to Bensarian's Hermitage
Rainbow Singer in the woods south of Kevar
Verdant Caretaker in the Forest of Shadows
Basically you need to remove the Shrine you placed in the middle of Wendar and move it to its south-eastern corner, because they represent the borders of the magical web that protects Wendar (its center is the Elvenstar in Wendar City).
I haven't written out the Church of Wendar yet, mainly because there is no such religious body, but I'll cover Wendar's religion next week, unless somebody wants to anticipate me on this subject ;)
Basically from the way I intended it, the Korrigans are worshipped broadly among elves and humans alike, but some human settlements also worship the old Antalian gods Wotan (Odin), Donar (Thor) and Frigg (Terra), especially the settlements in the eastern part of Wendar.
Rainbow Singer (music, poetry, lore, illusion, fun)
Silver Carver (arts, beauty, crafting)
Spring Maiden (waterfalls, rivers, ponds and lakes)
Verdant Caretaker (trees, plants, vegetation)
Silent Hunter (hunting, stealth, animals)
Merciful Healer (healing, medicine, compassion)
Fiery Champion (battle, fire, sun, honor, loyalty)
Dreaming Seer (stars, dreams, divination)
Eternal Wanderer (travels, adventure, discovery)
There might be a Tenth Korrigan who didn't become immortal and took instead a much darker aspect... nough said for now anyway
Very good choices for the names indeed, I like them! The Tenth Korrigan idea also: simply terrific!
Check out the map on page 1!
The map is growing very well! Congratulations, Thorf! Who thought Wendar would eventually earn its place among KW's detailed nations?
;)There might be a Tenth Korrigan who didn't become immortal and took instead a much darker aspect... nough said for now anyway
Up it to 12 and you've got the Twelve Watchers. ;)
Regards,
Gary
Just had a look at the latest version of the map...wow! It's so much of an improvement over the original!
Geoff
Thorf,
Just had a look at the latest version of the map...wow! It's so much of an improvement over the original!
Geoff
I agree. This is truly fabulous.
(Wondering whether Dawnblossom-Qvar should be moved slightly to the east - so it wouldn't be so close to the Shrine.)
Thick evergreen forests blanket more than a half of this region, their beauty and stateliness mirroring the Canolbarth Forest in its glory days. There are four major "reserves" (this is the best translation of the way the elves call them) in Wendar, all closely guarded and tended by Genalleth elves....
The Forest of Bounty (now renamed Forest of the Curse after the events of AC 1013 and 1014) lies in the southwestern corner of the nation and is currently inhabited by the Alfheim refugees. Mighty and sturdy oaks grow here, protected by a small group of treants that the elves call "The Elders." Woodgate and Oakwall, two other towns, lie at the easternmost border of this forest, and use its wood to boast their logging industry.
The forests are naturally troublesome, since TSR had a nasty habit of going back and forth between coniferous and deciduous forest symbols. I definitely think that the majority of the forested area in Wendar should, indeed, be evergreen, but I like the idea of having some deciduous forest land the region of Oakwall, particularly since it's hard to justify the "Oak" in Oakwall's name otherwise. Thorf, would you consider changing at least some of the southwestern woodland to the deciduous tiles (the bushy trees used in Alfheim, for instance)?
This brings me to a related point: "Oakwall" and "Woodgate" are such evocative names that, to me, at least, it seems a shame not to use them to full effect. Somewhere near Oakwall, I think, there should be some clear-cut line of oaks. Either a division between oak woods and pine forest, or else an abrupt shift between oak woods and cleared land.
"Woodgate," to me, evokes the image of the road plunging into Mirkwood in The Hobbit: "a sort of arch leading into a gloomy tunnel made by two great trees that leant together, too old and strangled with ivy and hung with lichen to bear more than a few blackened leaves." Since the term "Tolkienesque" has been used more than once to describe X11, Wendar, and Denagoth, why not embrace it? The trail to the northwest of Woodgate, I propose, dives immediately into a deep, dark forest. Even though the forested stretch is not long (a few miles, at most), it is a place sufficiently intimidating to keep out all but the elves and the hardiest of humans. The areas northwest of Woodgate, therefore, should be pretty much exclusively the domain of the elves (and whatever other nonhuman beasties may be out there).
What different types of trees do people picture in Wendar? The almanac entry mentions sequoia, oak, and pine, I believe. I seem to remember that the Wendarian range was called fir-clad somewhere, and this seems appropriate. In areas where springs and little lakes are plentiful, I picture aspen in abundance.
The discussion about mountains and borders has reminded me about something I've been considering lately. What are Wendar's relations with its neighbours? Where are the danger points on its borders, and does it have any kind of fortifications? Does it have to worry about invasions from Denagoth and the Menguls solely through Surewatch Keep and the mountain pass there, or are there minor orc or monster raids from other parts of the Menguls?
How about the Glantri border, and Elven Pass? Are there incursions from the Wendarian Range, by monsters or something else? That could be one reason why the Forest of Shadows got its name.
Lastly, what about the adjacent Adri Varma Plateau and the open region to the north? The plateau could form a natural barrier to any invasions, thus making that area of the country rather quieter and safer than most other borders. Alternatively, nasty monsters could occasionally come down from the plateau. Either way, it seems that fortifications and border guards will not really be necessary there. As for the far north, the Baamor Woods are a formidable entity of darkness covering half the northern border. I have considered placing a ring of towers round the edges to watch the forest.
In general, I would argue against many fortresses. As fleshed out in X11, the Elvenstar is the primary means of defense for Wendar, making the country more or less invulnerable to large-scale assaults. Furthermore, the evidence in X11 suggests that Wendar relies more on adventurers than on soldiers. While Wendar does indeed have soldiers, they are clearly insufficient to repel an assault from Denagoth without the protection of the Elvenstar. Wendar has at least a small spy network, with an active agent mentioned in X11. Wendar's armed forces are not significant enough to merit a mention in PWA1, though most other lands detailed have corresponding army entries.
I guess my image of Wendar is of a country rather similar to the Freeholds (and likely its population was bolstered significantly by the Heldannic Knights' takeover). I don't really see Wendar or Gylharen as the sort for the high taxation necessary to maintain a large standing army. The Joshuan's entry indicates that the people of Wendar are freedom-loving and that they welcome adventurers. That having been said, there are significant dangers on Wendar's borders, and at least some sorts of watchtowers or something should exist.
I seem to recall some source stating that the face of the Adri Varma has numerous rockslides and cuttings, allowing relatively easy access to and from the the Plateau. Even if this is not the case, a watchtower or two are good ideas here, and likely also on the northern frontier. Clearly, some sort of observation system is necessary on the frontier with Denagoth, and likely along the short Heldannic border. While I agree that relations with Glantri are cordial, I'm not sure anyone could share such an extensive border with Morphail's subjects and not be somewhat cautious.
Therefore, it seems reasonable that there be some sort of watchtower every twenty-five miles or so around the entire border. If this is the case, manning each tower with just twenty soldiers would mean that around a thousand soldiers are stationed in these watchtowers, and not one of these would be a strong enough garrison to really dissuade much of anything. I would tend to suggest, rather, that any such watchtowers be very simple structures, manned, more than likely, by only three or four individuals--something like the firespotting watchtowers in America's National Forests. Their job would be to defend themselves if necessary, and to signal in warning through some sort of relay. Wendar's frontiers are simply too extensive to guard by force without transforming it into some sort of military state.
I'm also in favour of giving more water sources to Wendar, namely a few lakes and rivers which are dangerously lacking in the map
Finally, I like your consideration on the watchtowers in place of keeps, but I might add something that maybe you don't have considered.
The Elvenstar works (IMVHO) in connection with the shrines of the Nine Korrigans and creates a web of protection all over Wendar. However, if you closely examine the locations of the shrines, you will notice that by connecting them one after the other to obtain the perimeter of the protective area, some areas remain unprotected. These places need keeps and guards to oversee the region.
Also, it is true that the Elvenstar can keep Wendar safe from invasions (exactly HOW it can is better not be addressed now), I doubt that the Elvenstar can keep villages safe from wandering bands of monsters, dragons or raiders. That's the duty of the local garrison.
For this reason I'd put few keeps in strategic locations where people NEED them to cope with recurring threats from nearby mountains or woods. ;)
Frankly speaking, I don't think there are too many keeps in Wendar as it stands, since it only has got five.
The Elvenstar works (IMVHO) in connection with the shrines of the Nine Korrigans and creates a web of protection all over Wendar. However, if you closely examine the locations of the shrines, you will notice that by connecting them one after the other to obtain the perimeter of the protective area, some areas remain unprotected. These places need keeps and guards to oversee the region.
I hadn't overlooked your earlier post about this, and I meant to comment that I very much like this idea! An added benefit is that it helps explain why certain other individuals in other places (to avoid unnecessary spoilers) cannot make full use of the Elvenstar in X11. It also helps establish clearly that the Elvenstar is not just a magic item, but a genuine artifact.
Also, it is true that the Elvenstar can keep Wendar safe from invasions (exactly HOW it can is better not be addressed now), I doubt that the Elvenstar can keep villages safe from wandering bands of monsters, dragons or raiders. That's the duty of the local garrison.
For this reason I'd put few keeps in strategic locations where people NEED them to cope with recurring threats from nearby mountains or woods. ;)
Frankly speaking, I don't think there are too many keeps in Wendar as it stands, since it only has got five.
An excellent point--five does not seem excessive, although I think that is probably a good place to stop adding fortresses. That way protection is sparse enough to force caution and to make adventurers beloved, yet it exists to counter major threats.
This is an excellent basis for doing such a map to cover the area north of Wendar. It actually doesn't have to be very full, and you've already presented more than enough ruins and such to stock it, so I'll have to have a go and see what I come up with. :D
The further north you go the less official sources there are to rely on...
I'm putting together a rough timeline for major events in the Northern Wildlands, using Shawn and Marco's Wendar timeline as a reference. I'll be working in references you might be able to use to populate your map (battles, etc.) It's main use will be for (hopefully) inspiring DMs to do something with the region, but also to backfill some historical gaps in order to explain the mapping inconsistency. It's about 60% complete, should be done soon...
You know, this is literally the first time in years I've been bitten with the inspiration bug to write.
Geoff
The description places it in "a great pocket of forest known as the Foxwoods, partially surrounded by the Wendarian Range". This seems like a pretty clear description of the area southwest of the Kevar Hills. When I next update, I'll mark it in as a shrine (?) in the middle of that valley.
More replies here when I get the chance.
I've been really busy lately, and I haven't had much time for mapping or even checking the boards. But I have got a bit of reading done, and I just got to the part in Dragonking of Mystara where Shadowmere is first mentioned.
The description places it in "a great pocket of forest known as the Foxwoods, partially surrounded by the Wendarian Range". This seems like a pretty clear description of the area southwest of the Kevar Hills. When I next update, I'll mark it in as a shrine (?) in the middle of that valley.
More replies here when I get the chance.
Very Cool Thorf! Shadowmere was the one I thought of when I mentioned the DL trilogy earlier in this thread. Although opinons about the novels may differ, I see no reason not to use them when they dont contradict canon, and actually expand upon it (without sucking, naturally).
Not all of the DL triology is true IMC but the core of the events and locations are. The rest have been tweaked or ignored according to my own taste
Håvard
Very Cool Thorf! Shadowmere was the one I thought of when I mentioned the DL trilogy earlier in this thread. Although opinons about the novels may differ, I see no reason not to use them when they dont contradict canon, and actually expand upon it (without sucking, naturally).
Not all of the DL triology is true IMC but the core of the events and locations are. The rest have been tweaked or ignored according to my own taste
Håvard
Must stat out the Veydran.
Regards,
Gary
Must stat out the Veydran.
Veydran? Hmmm....been a while since I read the books apparently...
Håvard
Because of my really bad memory, I can't remember when the map changes/gets updated. :D
Could you put a note on the post with the map in. Something along the lines of Last updated on...?
Regards,
Gary
The Veydran are a race of intelligent wyvern-like creatures. Reducing the physical stats and increasing the mental stats of a typical wyvern should work. Don't know about the tail sting though, it's not mentioned in the books (IIRC). Could keep it but give it a different effect.
Will post it in the monster conversion thread once done.
Regards,
Gary
Once we've completed this final stage, we should have a completed map, as well as the rather promising beginnings of a Wendar Gazetteer. :D
In the meantime, I'm open to any suggestions for how to tighten up our designs.
While I am editing, I will also be posting some questions relating to the design. The questions will be directed to the original writers of the pieces in question, but everyone should feel free to answer.
First question is for Marco:
The first and most important one, Korrigan Forest, lies in the western part of the nation. Two of Wendar’s most thriving cities are situated around the forest; Wendar City is enclosed by the western groves, while Sylvair lies on the western edge of the forest. The Korrigan Forest is renowned for the beauty of its sequoias and for the many shrines sacred to the Korrigans, the Nine Elven Protectors that watch upon Genalleth. The legend says that they drew their name from the mythical (and believed extinct) korrigan, a woodland animal that once lived here.
I've edited this slightly to fit the map, but I was wondering if the line about there being many shrines was still valid? Obviously the forest now includes one of the big 9 shrines, but there aren't any others currently marked. Can we assume this refers to smaller shrines, or should we cut the line?
As it currently stands, about half of the forest lies on the northern side of the border.
One possible answer could be the settlement of centaurs, which leads to another question: how much are the centaurs part of Wendar? To what extent do they participate in the government? Do they show themselves outside their village or the forest? Are they known to the elves or do they remain another secret of the evil woods?
Another answer could come from the shrines of the Korrigans, and I believe DM has a plan here regarding the 10th Korrigan.
Do we want to keep the name "Foxwoods" too? Also, what is Shadowmere? In the books it was a community of dragon clerics, gold dragons I think, who worshipped the Great One. It was attacked by rogue red dragons at one stage, but it may have been rebuilt.
Hmm, it does seem interesting to have a shrine to the Great One populated by gold dragons, actually, regardless of using the Dragonlord books or not. Although unlike the books, I would argue that the dragons spend much of their time shapechanged into elves, to fit better with the surrounding communities.
Hmm, it does seem interesting to have a shrine to the Great One populated by gold dragons, actually, regardless of using the Dragonlord books or not. Although unlike the books, I would argue that the dragons spend much of their time shapechanged into elves, to fit better with the surrounding communities.
Cant remember exactly where the Forest of Shadows is, but Shadowmere, IIRC was supposed to be a secluded valley in the south, nes pa? Shadowmere could be part of the Forest of Shadows, not the entire place. The Foxwoods similarly could be a smaller area.
The events of the DL trilogy occured about 1500 years ago so the damage caused by the renegade dragons could easily be rebuilt by now. I would suggest that most of the clerics of Shadowmere are Dragonworshipping elves, these days anyways, with as you suggest, Dragons in elf form working among them.
What is their relationship these days with the official religion of Wendar/Korrigan Worship? Perhaps it was harmonious at the time of the DL trilogy, but that it these days has become worse and that the Dragon Cult now is illegal? Could Sir George still (miraculously) be around, working alongside the Dragon Cultists?
Håvard
Havard, I agree with you about Shadowmere and the Foxwoods. But I was under the impression that the trilogy was set much closer to the modern era, more like 500 years ago...?
So far we know that the shrines combine with the Elvenstone to form a protective net around Wendar. Let's develop this idea a bit more, and tie it in to the history.
Presumably the Elvenstone was lost at some point after the Korrigans gained Immortality, so it seems likely that Wendar had some sort of "Golden Age" back when the Korrigans were still mortals. Their creation of the Shrines of the Nine and the Elvenstone surely have various effects on the surrounding lands.
One idea would be to give each shrine a set of effects, which are applied to the lands around each shrine, diminishing in effect the further away from the shrine you go. Alternatively each shrine could "project" these effects inward, because many shrines are located close to the borders.
These effects could be subtle, for example making those in the radius of effect more caring towards nature, or influencing them towards certain activites or beliefs. They could even have effects similar to the Elfstone, and gradually change all Wendar's inhabitants into elves!
What effect does the tenth shrine have? This could explain the situation in the Baamor Woods a little more, too.
All in all, I think these shrines together with the Elfstone could be the key to the whole region, around which everything can be built and moulded.
I'm looking for suggestions for ways to further integrate and tie everything together, as well as any new ideas anyone might have for additions. Also, places with [square brackets] generally mark areas that need further thought or development.
Wendar: A Mini Gazetteer
Original designs by Jesper Andersen, Traianus Decius Aureus, Marco Dalmonte, Gary, Geoff Gander, Lost Woodrake, Mortepierre Malepeste, Patrick Sullivan, Thorfinn Tait, Zendrolion
Edited and adapted by Thorfinn Tait
[If I forgot any names, or if you’d like to change the way your name is listed, please tell me.]
This gazetteer was created by the members of the Mystara Message Board, who contributed their ideas in order to flesh out a new 8 mile per hex map of Wendar. The result is far more than any of us could have hoped, providing us with a very promising mini-gazetteer for the country.
Overview
[This whole section needs to be further organised and split into multiple sections.]
The population is a fair mix of humans of Antalian stock (90%) and Dun stock (10%; the Duns are the Celtic-like stock found in Dundadale, the Hinterlands and Robrenn), and of Genalleth elves (similar to Alfheimers, some more like the Icevale elves, many of them rangers). Place names range between elvish, antalian and dunnish (minority).
Nestled among two plateaux and two mountain ranges, Wendar (or Genalleth, as the elven race calls it) is a secluded and ancient land that still holds many secrets and marvels even to its inhabitants. Thick evergreen forests blanket more than half of the region, their beauty and stateliness mirroring the Canolbarth Forest in its glory days. There are five major "reserves" (this is the best translation of the way the elves call them) in Wendar, as well as a number of smaller woods, all closely guarded and tended by Genalleth elves and their human forester allies.
The first and most important one, Korrigan Forest, lies in the western part of the nation. Two of Wendar’s most thriving cities are situated around the forest; Wendar City is enclosed by the western groves, while Sylvair lies on the western edge of the forest. The Korrigan Forest is renowned for the beauty of its sequoias and for the many shrines sacred to the Korrigans, the Nine Elven Protectors that watch upon Genalleth. The legend says that they drew their name from the mythical (and believed extinct) korrigan, a woodland animal that once lived here.
The Forest of Bounty lies in the western corner of the nation. Mighty and sturdy oaks grow here, protected by a small group of treants that the elves call "The Elders." Woodgate and Oakwall, two other towns, lie at the borders of this forest, and use its wood to boast their logging industries.
After the corruption of the Canolbarth Forest, the Forest of Bounty is inhabited by Alfheim refugees. In AC 1015, events cause the northern part of the forest to be renamed Forest of the Curse.
Right at the centre of the Genalleth Valley we find the Enchanted Forest, a mysterious patch of trees that the elves hold as sacred. According to the legends, here live the fairies with their sylvan friends, the centaurs and actaeons, and those who dare trespass against Nature in this place are bound to be abducted by actaeons and to serve the fairies for the rest of their life. Tales of missing wanderers abound in this region.
[Description needed!]
Forest of Shadows - The origin of the name of the Forest of Shadows is not yet clear, but it surely has something to do with necromancy.
The last important reserve lies at the northwestern border and is referred to as the Dark Woods of Baamor. The Wendarians tell frightening tales about this area, whose trees are strangely darker and more twisted than the common trees of the region, and whose fauna is made up of deformed and evil parodies of the common woodland animals. Elven sages blame this to a mysterious being (or race, this is not clearly defined) called Baamor, who tried to poison the entire continent in the ancient days to appease the Dark Immortals. However, the Korrigans rebelled against Baamor and ultimately defeated him, imprisoning the evil Baamor inside one of the blight trees of this forest. Therefore, in order to avoid freeing him, it is strictly prohibited to cut down any tree in this region. In fact, few people venture there, for it is said that Baamor tries to possess anyone who walks into his forest and use him to achieve freedom.
[Minor Forest Descriptions – need work.]
The Laughing Woods - an ominous name. It may be because the wind makes strange laughing noises when blowing through these trees, or because you can hear giggles and laughter at night.
Scarlet Groves – These woods took their name from the thousands of soldiers who died in the forest defending Wendar from Denagothian invasions in the past. Their blood has somehow incarnadined parts of the trees and the grass.
Kevareth Woods – The forested hilly region south of Kevar, twisting around and among the mountains of the Wendarian Range, and bordering on the Forest of Shadows, is rich in natural resources, and has been the site of various mines. Currently there are only two working mines, but the southern areas of the forest remain largely unexplored; almost surrounded by mountains, they are difficult to access.
[This paragraph needs major revisions.] The rest of the region consists of rocky hills to the east and to the south, where the few herders raise their cattle (horses and sheep mostly). In the central plains and moors the humans raise their crops. The valleys and plains are usually safe and free of monsters, but the closer one gets to the mountain ranges, the more the trip becomes dangerous.
[Water – needs expanded.] Although few waterways and lakes are large enough to be marked on the map, Wendar has numerous small lakes, ponds, bogs and marshes amidst its forests and settlements.
The Wendarian Range to the south and the Mengul Mountains to the north are renowned for their snow-capped peaks and for the fierceness of their inhabitants. The Wendarian Range, whose peaks average 11,000 feet in height, is home to many tribes of yeti, sasquatches and even a few white dragons, not to mention the occasional monstrous results of Glantrian experiments.
The only two southern passes maintained and guarded actively by the Wendarians are the Elven Pass to the southeast, which leads through the gap between the Adri Varma Plateau and the end of the Wendarian Range, directly to Oakwall; and the Kevar Pass to the southwest, from which the Royal Way leads to the capital winding through the Korrigan Forest. There is a third pass leading northwards through the Mengul Mountains and up to Denagoth, but it has not been used since the last war with Essuria, about 80 years ago.
Wendar's long eastern border is constantly watched and garrisoned, because the worst problems come and have always come from Denagoth. Luckily, there are only a few passes that can be used by the Denagothians to effectively march inside Wendar without risking too many casualties on the trip, so these are well guarded. Two keeps, Surewatch Keep and Gylharen Keep, have been built near the border with Denagoth under the supervision of King Gylharen, and these standing garrisons have the sole purpose of stopping (or slowing) any possible invasion attempt from that land. However, since Denagoth has not given any significant trouble in the last decades, the soldiers stationed here have taken on the duty to harass and annihilate any humanoid band trying to cross the border and cause mayhem in Wendar; so far, they've been successful.
The Wendarians have had little troubles with the neighbouring Heldanners in the past two centuries, just a record of quick raids which are normal among the northmen. But the northmen have come to fear and respect the elves during the centuries, so only the hotheads dare try anything against Wendar, and this keeps problems to a minimum. The keep built in this region, the Hawksgate, is intended to oversee the region and halt any likely raid from humanoids and humans alike.
Unfortunately, with the Heldannic Knights overtaking Heldann in AC 957, the relationship has become more tense, and Gylharen must have reinforced the garrison in that region. The Knights are not to be taken lightly, even when they are polite.
The relationship between Glantri and Wendar has been peaceful, and trade has been abundant since the 9th century, when things in Glantri stabilized. The Elven Pass is the only direct route that connects the two nations. It is guarded by the Everway Tower, which together with the Hawksgate shares the duty of monitoring visitors to Wendar, as well as handling any possible raids by humanoid tribes living in the Wendarian Range. The biggest barrier against raids and invasion on the southern border is of course the Forest of Shadows.
The Baamor Woods and the Laughing Woods are a real barrier on the north-western border, and the Wendarians would never expect an invasion force marching through them to get inside Wendar. Likewise, since the malicious effects of the Baamor Woods are so feared, even settling next to it is not encouraged. For this reason there are only three towers in the north, used as observation points to keep the situation in the woods in check. Lerian's Tower is one of these, and indeed the most dangerous assignment for any soldier, which is why it is manned only by elves, who have better resistance to magic. The other towers are the Tower of Twilight, which guards Woodgate, and Aelythnar, a fortress manned by elves, which guards the entrance from the Adri Varma plateau as well as the lowland region between the Forest of Bounty and the Woods of Baamor, known as the Shunned Plains. Aelythnar’s position near the border, on a trail running from Woodgate to the Adri Varma Plateau, also puts it in a strategic position.
Although Wendar maintains fortresses and keeps on most of its important borders, the Elvenstar is the primary means of defense, making the country more or less invulnerable to large-scale assaults. For smaller raids and other problems, Wendar often relies more on adventurers than on soldiers. While Wendar does indeed have soldiers, they are insufficient to repel an assault from Denagoth without the protection of the Elvenstar. Wendar has at least a small spy network, with an active agent mentioned in X11. Wendar's armed forces are not significant enough to merit a mention in PWA1, though most other lands detailed have corresponding army entries.
Wendar is a country rather similar to the Freeholds (and likely its population was bolstered significantly by the Heldannic Knights' takeover). Gylharen is not the type of ruler to go for the high taxation necessary to maintain a large standing army. The people of Wendar are freedom-loving and they welcome adventurers. That having been said, there are significant dangers on Wendar's borders, and at the watchtowers around Wendar are well supplied and maintained, vigilant at all times against signs of trouble.
The face of the Adri Varma has numerous rockslides and cuttings, allowing relatively easy access to and from the plateau. [Add a watchtower or two on the border?] While relations with Glantri are cordial, no one could share such an extensive border with Morphail's subjects and not be somewhat cautious.
[Not sure if this idea should stand… Do they really need so many watchtowers?] There should be some sort of watchtower every twenty-five miles or so around the entire border. If this is the case, manning each tower with just twenty soldiers would mean that around a thousand soldiers are stationed in these watchtowers, and not one of these would be a strong enough garrison to really dissuade much of anything. I would tend to suggest, rather, that any such watchtowers be very simple structures, manned, more than likely, by only three or four individuals. Their job would be to defend themselves if necessary, and to signal in warning through some sort of relay. Wendar's frontiers are simply too extensive to guard by force without transforming it into some sort of military state.
Wendar’s Government
[Still very much under development.]
Suggestions include a system where the humans and elves are a little more closely knit. Segregating them is okay, but having them living together peacefully seems more interesting if you ask me.
Each full-fledged town has a headman/burgomeister who runs it in conjunction with a civic government (i.e., the town is actually incorporated, and had elves and humans in its governing council). The headman is usually a rich/influential local landowner or noble (in the plains), an elven lord (in the forests) or a loyal person chosen by the king (in critical areas). This system of municipal government extends to the villages. The leader of each town/village advises the king on matters relating directly to that settlement (i.e., crop yields, local diseases, banditry, etc.), but national matters are decided by the king, with the advice of his own officials.
The king holds a "parliament" of sorts (modelled on traditional elvish clan councils) a few times per year, during which the town and village leaders go to Wendar City to raise important matters with the king - who is obligated to provide a response before the session ends - and to pose questions about his policies and plans. In the interests of maintaining stability, the king could be open about anything not deemed a military secret, or anything related to Denagoth. It is during these meetings that the king's advisors develop budgets (based on what town and village heads are saying about taxes, the health of businesses, trade, etc.) and develop priorities for spending (e.g., if Oakwall's leader is having a problem with bandits, more money might be allocated to increase the garrison there, etc.).
The parliament could be imagined as a sort of late middle-age German/Eastern European "Dieta" or French "States-General", i.e. an assembly not too strictly divided by class, in which one could find representatives of the landowners, the townspeople, the forest communities and perhaps in smaller number the druids, the priests of the Korrigans, the demihuman (centaur and the like) population, etc.
Most of the land in Wendar belongs either to the crown or to the clans (the forests above all), while the remaining land is in the hands of the low nobility (elven and human alike).
Major Settlements
City of Wendar
Oakwall – A town in southwest Wendar, named for the groves of oak trees which surround the town.
Sylvair – The most elven of Wendar’s towns.
Woodgate
Bensarian’s Hermitage – Home to the famous sage of Wendar, Bensarian, who gifted the Elvenstar to Gylharen.
Minor Settlements
Aebhyrn Lwnn – The settlement of a very reclusive, very militant and quite large centaur clan. It is located in the midst of the Dark Woods of Baamor, and unlike many centaur settlements, it has several stone "houses" ("stables"?) that the centaurs built for lodging. It is a well fortified community, led by the charismatic centauress Nawanne Shirvanawe. These are probably the only sentient creatures willing to live in this forest, although no-one understands why.
Ammalanleth – A village located deep in the Forest of Bounty, populated by elves of a more traditionalist bent.
Brethiliath – This village, located in the great deep forest south of Wendar City, is where a Tree of Life is located, closely guarded by Treekeepers. The elves who live here prefer to have little to do with the outside world, and have focused on spiritual matters. In doing so, Brethiliath has become known among Wendarian elves as a place to go to learn about, and meditate on, the relationship between their race and nature, and the grand scheme of life. As a result, Brethiliath sees a fair amount of visitors - mainly elves, but also a handful of human sages interested in such matters.
Bynflaare Hall – Located in the dense Laughing Woods of northeast Wendar, Bynflaare Hall is a haven for Mystics. Several monasteries and abbies are dispersed in between the high, thick foliage - as well as many caves, tree-houses and even "nests" for individual hermits.
Dalvarhøfn – A predominantly Heldanner village northwest of Bensarian’s Hermitage, southeast of Surewatch Keep, settled by Heldanners who fled the onslaught of the Heldannic Order in AC 950. The king gave them lands in the rich, rolling plains south of the Mengul Range, both to make those lands more productive, and to create a buffer zone in case Denagoth ever managed to invade - a consummate politician.
Dawnblossom-Qvar - In 862 AC [date needs checked with Glantri timeline] a group of halflings and dwarves escaped the towers and laboratories of Glantrian wizards, and crossed the mountains in a perilous journey towards freedom and safety in Wendar. Many died along the way, but some arrived at their destination and were allowed – although not without suspicion – to settle in the mountains of southwest Wendar. Thus the village of Dawnblossom-Qvar was established. They couldn't agree on one single name, so the first word is the hin name, the second the dwarven one. This town is populated by these immigrants' descendants - who try to fit into the Wendarian society as best they can. However, the cruel experiments had their effect also on generations to come, and the hills of Wendar are often plagued by some strange disease or a monstrous mutation, originating in this miserable community. For this reason, many Wendarians resent these "short people", and demand that they leave the kingdom.
Duncan's Keep is a tiny settlement on the edge of the Forest of Shadows, south of Wendar City and southeast of Sylvair. It is named after the founder, who many years ago was given a fief and instructed to build a small fortified tower to keep the area safe.
Today, Duncan's Keep is home to some 70 families, a mix of humans and elves. Their primary source of income is from woodcutting, timber export and manufacturing goods out of wood.
The local mayor is a human woman named Agnes Stellasdottir of Heldann descent. For a brief periode a few years ago, she was the lover of the proud Soderfjord warrior Emrode, when he and his companions were in town after slaying a nearby green dragon that was threatening the community.
From that relationship Agnes bore a son, who is now a little over a year old, named Axel Emrodeson. Agnes does not know where Emrode is today but hopes that he will return to Duncan's Keep one day.
Other notables in the tiny hamlet includes Baron Duncan III, grandson of the founder, whose wife died of sickness years ago before bearing him any children. The people of Duncan's Keep are loyal to their baron but realise that he is now too old to marry again and most people expect that either will the King bestow the barony upon another line or ask Baron Duncan to name one of the villagers his heir.
Most of the villagers hope that would be Agnes, but a few ambitious others are secretly working to improve their own standing with the baron. One of them is the gnome merchant Theodor Thunderburp who has made a small fortune exporting quality wooden goods to Glantri and the Heldann Freeholds. He is quite a comical figure, always making speeches at the tavern or on the village square about how "a person who has had success financially would be the best choice to secure prosperity to the entire village" and such slogans. Theodor has the odds against him, however, because for all his wealth most villagers still consider him a good-hearted clown.
The second contender is a daydreaming bard named Jonaleth Silverbrim from Darokin. He came to Duncan's Keep broke and soon learned about the local political situation. He hopes to become the next baron by woeing Agnes and marrying her, so that when she enherits the barony, he will become baron. Jonaleth is as much an amateur as Theodor but much more scheeming. He is not above sabotaging Theodor's speeches, adding to the poor gnome's ridiculous reputation.
The real threat to Duncan's Keep is from the third contender for the throne, a local elven priest of the Korrigan named Meetholan. He is the head of the local chuch and much more strict (LN) than most elves. He feels that the humans are violating nature around Duncan's Keep and because of their short lifespans and lack of inherent magic abilities inferior to elves. In short, he is a racist. If he inherits the barony, it will turn into a hagiarchy, an area ruled by holy men. And that is sure to put an end to the current prosperity and lessen the lives of humans to those of serfs.
Whatever will become of Duncan's Keep in the near future is up to the DM. Perhaps Emrode and his group will return. Perhaps another party of adventurers will come by and resolve the situation. If not, one of the three contenders will probably get the throne, and the changes will probably send ripples through Wendarian nobility all over the country,
Genalldhon – A village in forested hills south of the Mengul Range, well-known for its artisans, who produce exquisite carvings from nearby stands of birch and oak.
Hvollsvatn – Founded in AC 960 by refugees from the Heldanner town of Skolgrim (now Grauenberg). Although they initially settled in Kevar, frictions with the local humans forced them to petition King Gylharen for permission to settle elsewhere. The king granted them land near the forested hills south of the Royal Way, and gave them mining and limited forestry rights. The region was sparsely inhabited beforehand, and would, he reasoned, provide a stable population base to make the land productive, and from which armies could be raised should tensions with Heldann or Denagoth ever boil over. Today, many people in Hvollsvatn are miners and smelters, selling the iron ingots to merchants who will then transport them to Kevar, Wendar City, and occasionally Sylvair. Hvollsvatn is also known for its competent smiths.
Laurianta - Located in the Enchanted Forest, Laurianta is a properous elven village, made so by virtue of the fast-flowing Laure River (Golden River to the humans); the river is so named because of extensive deposits of iron pyrite (fools' gold) in the riverbed rocks, which catch the sun's rays and glow warmly in the water. The industrious villagers have built several water wheels to operate their mills, saws (the wood from Laurianta is recognised for its quality, and some of the finest furniture is made here), and other enterprises. In so doing, they manage to produce as much as many larger villages, while having plenty of time for leisure. Outsiders claim that Laurianta is so named because elves built a bridge of gold, but the village's name, in fact, stems from the fact that the Laure is a dangerous river to ford for the unwary - this place is one of the few safe places to cross it, and the village grew up around the sturdy bridge that was built there centuries ago.
Uumarne – This was a small fishing village, at the shores of Lake Phyrroe, a medium-sized lake at the southern side of the Forest of Bounty. Uumarne grew rapidly as many Alfheim refugees, as well as industrious Leprechauns from Alfheim, settled there - and turned the sleepy community into a thriving center of commerce and business.
Yngvarsvall - Located northeast of Woodgate, between the Enchanted Forest and the Baamor Woods. Yngvarsvall is a mixed settlement (with human majority of 70-80%), due to the number of elvish soldiers who pass through it to and from Lerian's Tower; some opt to settle down in the town. For those who allow half-elves in their campaigns, a fair percentage of the village's humans (perhaps up to 25%) could be reclassified as half-elves (again, due to the number of elvish soldiers who pass through...). Military wagons going between the town and the tower often use the village as a rest stop. As a result, a small, but moderately prosperous, group of craftsmen and burghers grew up here, trading their services for the soldiers' coin. Its proximity to the Baamor Woods makes Yngvarsvall a watchful town, somewhat suspicious of outsiders, but always welcoming to soldiers.
Keeps and Fortresses
Surewatch Keep - Located on the western border with Denagoth, this Wendarian fortress is charged with watching the porous border regions near Geron. The garrison takes its duty very seriously - the keep has never fallen in its 500-odd year history.
Gylharen Keep – This keep on the Denagoth border was built to protect Wendar city from direct invasion from the Mengul Mountains.
The Hawksgate – One of the busiest of Wendar’s border fortifications, the Hawksgate guards the Kevar Pass leading to Heldann. All traffic through the pass is forced to go through the fortress, where Wendarian soldiers check trade goods and enforce border taxes. These soldiers are also of course responsible for the defence of the realm against any possible attack from Heldann. The fort is renowned for its expert falconers.
Aelythnar – The stronghold is a typical elven one, built partly upon the trees (remember the drawing in the Expert set?), on the outer fringes of the Forest of Bounty where it approaches the Baamor Woods.
Lerian's Tower – Located in the gap between the Baamor Woods and the Laughing Woods, this tower was built by a distant cousin of one of the first kings of Wendar to secure the northern marches. Much beloved by the king, the cousin was granted a great deal of autonomy, and ruled the northern frontier as his own domain. The details of his treachery are now lost (likely destroyed), but the cousin turned against the king, and a great civil war ensued, spilling much blood in the lands surrounding the tower (which was thereafter named the Gap of Tears). The king prevailed, and the cousin's name was struck from all the records. He would have demolished the tower, too, but for its strategic importance. The king's son, Lerian, offered to give up his right to the crown and guard the northern border - a duty he upheld until his death 330 years later. Thereafter, the tower was named after Lerian in his honour. Today, it is well garrisoned, with a scattering of human farms surrounding it.
Battle Sites
Wendar rose as a modern kingdom in AC 910 under Gylharen. However, the towns and villages have been members of defensive leagues in the past, so there could possibly have been many elvish (and maybe a few human) nobles or self-styled kings, each ruling a petty dominion. All this to say that there could very well have been many battles between the towns and various factions
Felzuumath's Fall (AC 452) – Located northeast of Woodgate, this is where Nione fought and killed Felzuumath, who had terrorised the towns of western Wendar for many years. The victorious elves of Woodgate piled their enemies into a mound and burned them. Since that time, grass has grown over the remains, and now a fair-sized grassy hill stands alone.
King's Sorrow (AC 103) – Located to the south of Lerian's Tower, this is where the elf king of Amoleth fought, and killed, his beloved cousin. Surviving accounts of the battle say that so much blood was spilled that day, that the plains had become a reddish swamp.
Other Points of Interest
Amoleth – The ruins of Amoleth lie along the southern fringes of the forest to the east of Lerian's Tower. In its heyday, it was the capital of the kingdom of Amoleth, an elvish realm that stretched across what is now northwestern Wendar. A strong ally of the other elvish realms, its soldiers fought numerous Denagothian hordes. The Battle of King's Sorrow broke the king's spirit, and the realm began to decline thereafter. During the chaotic period surrounding the bloody campaigns of Felzuumath, the giant's armies laid the town to siege. Unable to secure aid from its neighbours, and with the garrison of Lerian's Tower unable to reach the town in time, Amoleth fell in AC 433. Most of the population was slaughtered, but a handful managed to escape and bring word to other towns and villages. Elvish fury over the loss of Amoleth united them long enough to wage a successful campaign against their enemies, ultimately leading to the Battle of Felzuumath's Fall.
Moors of Chlyras – These dark moors, at the midst of the Baamor Woods, straddling Wendar’s northern border, are home to the hideous Aantkh-Nyr, a murderous and powerful nuckalavee who draws pleasure from killing the centaurs of Aebhyrn Lwnn. He tortured and killed Nawanne's beloved, the former leader of the centaurs, Cephae Wy'rnaav - and she is trying to get her revenge ever since.
Tower of Anorion – Located in the western corner of Wendar, on the edge of the Forest of Bounty. Anorion was an elf-mage of great power, who worked great wonders during the years following Felzuumath's defeat. It was his guidance that led to a period of rejuvenation of the land, which had suffered greatly during the previous decades of war and strife. Inspired to perform greater deeds, Anorion quested for artefacts of great power to increase his strength, and found a strange device in a dead city of strange black stone on the Adri Vamra Plateau. One night, there was a great flash of light that lit the sky for miles around his tower, and afterwards there was silence. Visitors found no evidence of habitation the next day, and the lands surrounding the tower seemed corrupted somehow - the vegetation grew sickly, brittle, and grey in colour, and Anorion's orchards ever after bore poisonous fruit. No animal will go near the tower today, and those who spend too much time there almost inevitably sicken and die from a strange wasting disease. It is said that a wealth of magical lore remains in the tower, but it is also said that many fiendish guardians and traps await the unwary, as well as the "curse"...
Mines
Mines of Kevar
Hvollsvatn Mines
Shrines
The Nine Shrines of the Korrigans – Nine shrines, each one dedicated to one of the Korrigans, placed around Wendar inside the forests (with the exception of the Baamor Woods). These shrines are part of Wendar’s greatest secret: what really keeps Wendar safe from Denagoth is the Elvenstar working in tandem with these 9 wells of power, which spin a protective magical web around Wendar. That's how the Korrigans enchanted their land in a unique way and completed their path to immortality.
Shrine of the Fiery Champion in the Scarlet Groves
Shrine of the Eternal Wanderer near the Everway Tower
Shrine of the Spring Maiden in the southern Forest of Bounty
Shrine of the Dreaming Seer in the Laughing Woods
Shrine of the Merciful Healer in the Enchanted Forest
Shrine of the Silent Hunter in the northern part of the Forest of Bounty
Shrine of the Silver Carver in the Korrigan Forest next to Bensarian's Hermitage
Shrine of the Rainbow Singer in the woods south of Kevar
Shrine of the Verdant Caretaker in the Forest of Shadows
Shrine of Nione – Located near Woodgate. Nione was an elven heroine of great renown centuries ago, whose deeds are still sung. During a great battle against a Denagothian horde, she slew Felzuumath, a fearsome mountain giant who commanded the evil army (which broke up soon afterwards in disarray), but died of her injuries soon afterwards. Her heroism allowed the crown prince, who was commanding the Wendarian armies, to escape to safety. Out of gratitude, the crown price built a beautiful shrine to honour the hero. Today, many Wendarians who dream of becoming heroes make a pilgrimage to the shrine to seek Nione's guidance, and to pay homage. Some even claim to have received visions while visiting.
The Northern Border
At various times in the past, the elves have claimed the northern wildlands for their own, some undertaking the perilous task of settling the dark forests and building strongholds. In times of prosperity, new realms were carved out of the wilderness, and the border crept northwards. In darker times, evil things swept down from the Mengul Mountains, and from the fearsome Adri Varma Plateau, and in their wake there was nothing but ruined fortresses and towns, and streams of refugees fleeing south, telling their brethren of the horrors that stalked them. Even during the worst times, the heartlands in the south remained free for the most part, made secure by a network of fortresses and towers, but always the wildlands beckoned, promising fantastic things to those with the strength and courage to find them.
Gylharen, wishing to usher in a new era of strength for Wendar, has called on the bravest souls - human and elven - to cross the frontier into the wildlands, and retake that which was lost many times before. This time, Gylharen has the Elvenstone, and the guidance of the Korrigans, to strengthen him. Legends abound of lost elven cities, hidden deep in forbidding ancient forests, filled with priceless lore and treasures: many-towered Soreth, Thalion, with its bridge of unsurpassing beauty, and silver-domed Nimbeth. All were built and held by the elves in times past, and, perhaps, they might be retaken by the men and elves of modern Wendar.
Nowadays, the area has many interesting sites, including bad/good magic points, ruins (probably including ruins of the legendary elven cities), as well as many monster lairs. Rumours also tell of a great (black?) dragon who keeps her lair in the area.
Of course, any attempts to expand the realm into the Northern Wildlands are undoubtedly hampered by the lack of protection from the Elvenstar; its protection stops at the current northern border.
The Elvenstar and the Shrines of the Nine
The Shrines of the Nine represent the borders of the magical web that protects Wendar. The centre of the web is the Elvenstar, in Wendar City.
The Elvenstar works in connection with the shrines of the Nine Korrigans and creates a web of protection all over Wendar. However, if you closely examine the locations of the shrines, you will notice that by connecting them one after the other to obtain the perimeter of the protective area, some areas remain unprotected. These places need keeps and guards to oversee the region.
Also, it is true that the Elvenstar can keep Wendar safe from invasions (exactly HOW it can is not yet clear), it seems doubtful that the Elvenstar can keep villages safe from wandering bands of monsters, dragons or raiders. That's the duty of the local garrison. For this reason, Wendar maintains a few keeps in strategic locations where people need them to cope with recurring threats from nearby mountains or woods.
Religion
[Needs development!]
Wendar doesn’t have a religious body or church as such. The Korrigans are worshipped broadly among elves and humans alike, but some human settlements also worship the old Antalian gods Wotan (Odin), Donar (Thor) and Frigg (Terra), especially the settlements in the eastern part of Wendar.
Wendar’s Trees
The majority of the forested area in Wendar is evergreen. There is, however, some deciduous forest around the town of Oakwall. The trees of Wendar include sequoias, oaks, and pines. The Wendarian range is clad in fir trees. In areas where springs and little lakes are plentiful, there are aspens in abundance.
Proposed Changes to the Map
- Add some oak hexes around Oakwall.
- Add Shadowmere and the Foxwoods in the southern Forest of Shadows.
- Add more water features – suggestions required!
Another point to remember is that the styles we should be using are Elven, Antalian and Dunnish, at a ratio of 5:4:1 or so.
Official Names
Wendar (country)
Genalleth (Elven variant)
City of Wendar (capital city)
Oakwall (town)
Sylvair (town)
Woodgate (town)
Bensarian’s Hermitage
Kevar (town)
Kevareth (Elven variant)
Mengul Mountains
Wendarian Range (mountains)
Royal Way
The Korrigans (Immortal)
Gylharen (king)
Elvenstar
Names to be Revised
Korrigan Forest
Enchanted Forest
Forest of Bounty
Forest of the Curse
Forest of Shadows
Baamor Woods
Laughing Woods
Scarlet Groves
Elven Pass
Kevar Pass
Surewatch Keep
Everway Keep
Gylharen Keep
Hawksgate (fortress)
Aelythnar (fortress)
Lerian’s Tower
Aebhyrn Lwnn (centaur village)
Ammalanleth (elven village)
Brethiliath (elven village)
Bynflaare Hall (mystic haven)
Dalvarhofn (Heldann village)
Dawnblossom-Qvar (dwarf & halfling village)
Duncan’s Keep (mixed village)
Genalldhon (mixed village)
Hvollsvatn (Heldann village)
Laurianta (elven village)
Uumarne (mixed village)
Yngvarsvall (human & elven village, 8:2)
Felzuumath’s Fall (battlefield)
King’s Sorrow (battlefield)
Amoleth (ruined elven town)
Moors of Chlyras
Tower of Anorion (ruined tower)
Mines of Kevar
Hvollsvatn Mines
Nine Shrines of the Korrigans
Shrine of Nione
Soreth (legendary ruined city)
Nimbeth (legendary ruined city)
Thalion (legendary ruined city)
Names to be Revised
Korrigan Forest
Enchanted Forest
Forest of Bounty
Forest of the Curse
Forest of Shadows
...
Laughing Woods
Scarlet Groves
...
Perhaps these could be the elven or mixed elven names once they have been translated into the common tongue. Have an elven word for 'forest' and then play with it by adding other elven sounding words or syllables to represent 'bounty', 'enchanted', etc.
After some interesting reading over the Italian Mystara Boards, I have come to the conclusion that we need to revise HEAVILY the history of Wendar as well as Idris's history the way I had written it. The problem is that elves (or anyone save Beastmen actually) couldn't be living in Wendar during the Blackmoor era beacuse since the Broken Lands-Glantri were the actual North Pole, the area of Wendar would have been in the Arctic Circle, and as such a totally unsuitable region for elves or humans to live in.
For this reason, I will assume that the Korrigans didn't achieve immortality in BC2900 (as previously thought) but shortly after the Glantrian Catastrophe.
I'm going to change Idris's history accordingly (tying her with the N'djatwa too) and to add the Korrigans's bio shortly afterwards in the Immortals' thread ;)
We should also change what Shawn and I wrote about Wendar mostly, especially the naming thing (Wendar should indeed be some kind of elven or bastardized elven-antalian term for something like Unity) and the reason why Bensarian did have the Elvenstar in the first place.
I've also got a file where Geoff, Shawn and I had devised a short table of contents of a proposed Wendar gazetteer, so if either Shawn or Geoff still has it and wants to post it here before I do, we could also elaborate on that to add more meat to this interesting topic ;)
PS: don't worry Thorf, your questions about the Tenth Korrigan and the Dark Woods of Baamor will also be answered in my revision of Idris's and the Korrigans's history.
And btw, the Wendarians consider the DWoB still part of their country because the border drawn by the mystical shrines cuts through it :P
PPS: I still am a bit unsure about the usefulness of a couple of villages that have been listed, but I believe this will become clearer once we write down another tentative history of the region.
IN PARTICULAR, could you please explain to me HOW we get a Tree of Life in Wendar BEFORE the coming of the Alfheimers? It is mentioned here:
Brethiliath – This village, located in the great deep forest south of Wendar City, is where a Tree of Life is located, closely guarded by Treekeepers. The elves who live here prefer to have little to do with the outside world, and have focused on spiritual matters. In doing so, Brethiliath has become known among Wendarian elves as a place to go to learn about, and meditate on, the relationship between their race and nature, and the grand scheme of life. As a result, Brethiliath sees a fair amount of visitors - mainly elves, but also a handful of human sages interested in such matters.
I dare say it is a mistake...right?
Regards,
Gary
- Add Shadowmere and the Foxwoods in the southern Forest of Shadows.
- Add more water features – suggestions required!
Maybe a small lake, or similar at Shadowmere, (the name certainly suggests some water), with a small river running back to the mountains. :D
Thorf,
If you want my surname for the credits it's Davies.
Regards,
Gary
After some interesting reading over the Italian Mystara Boards, I have come to the conclusion that we need to revise HEAVILY the history of Wendar as well as Idris's history the way I had written it. The problem is that elves (or anyone save Beastmen actually) couldn't be living in Wendar during the Blackmoor era beacuse since the Broken Lands-Glantri were the actual North Pole, the area of Wendar would have been in the Arctic Circle, and as such a totally unsuitable region for elves or humans to live in.
I see what you mean. But what about the ice over Glantri? Doesn't GAZ3 say that Glantri is covered by ice until as late as 800 BC? Wendar's location would seem to imply that it too would be covered with ice until that time, wouldn't it? Then again, Wendar is a big plain among the mountains, while Glantri seems much more glacial, with many small valleys. Perhaps the ice over Wendar retreated much faster...?
I'm going to change Idris's history accordingly (tying her with the N'djatwa too) and to add the Korrigans's bio shortly afterwards in the Immortals' thread ;)
I just checked out the new background for Idris - very nice. I'm interested in the N'djatwa link. Were you intending to link her to the present N'djatwa society too? I can't remember much about their beliefs, although I read their part of the Princess Ark again just a few months ago.
We should also change what Shawn and I wrote about Wendar mostly, especially the naming thing (Wendar should indeed be some kind of elven or bastardized elven-antalian term for something like Unity) and the reason why Bensarian did have the Elvenstar in the first place.
I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to... Are you talking about your history of Wendar? It does seem that it will need to be updated quite significantly given the recent developments with the Korrigans, Idris, the Elvenstar, etc.
I've also got a file where Geoff, Shawn and I had devised a short table of contents of a proposed Wendar gazetteer, so if either Shawn or Geoff still has it and wants to post it here before I do, we could also elaborate on that to add more meat to this interesting topic ;)
That would be great! Might help to reorganise some of the stuff we came up with in this thread, too. Please post it as soon as you can.
And btw, the Wendarians consider the DWoB still part of their country because the border drawn by the mystical shrines cuts through it :P
Okay, that's what I thought you'd say. Hmmm... Don't you want me to place a shrine, or the ruins of shrine in the Dark Woods of Baamor, then? Perhaps on the Moors of Chlyras... At least the remains of the shrine Idris' exploited should still be there, right? Perhaps she even has a temple there now, complete with evil Idris clerics and such. ;)
PPS: I still am a bit unsure about the usefulness of a couple of villages that have been listed, but I believe this will become clearer once we write down another tentative history of the region.
Yes, I agree with you there. It's a side-effect of the somewhat random way in which we all just pitched in ideas. Some or all of them will probably need to be tweaked, or changed altogether, but the great thing is that even if things end up getting changed a lot, it's much easier to work with these as a base than to start from scratch.
And I don't think anyone is going to be annoyed if their ideas get changed a bit in order to fit in better. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here!)
IN PARTICULAR, could you please explain to me HOW we get a Tree of Life in Wendar BEFORE the coming of the Alfheimers? It is mentioned here:
Brethiliath – This village, located in the great deep forest south of Wendar City, is where a Tree of Life is located, closely guarded by Treekeepers. The elves who live here prefer to have little to do with the outside world, and have focused on spiritual matters. In doing so, Brethiliath has become known among Wendarian elves as a place to go to learn about, and meditate on, the relationship between their race and nature, and the grand scheme of life. As a result, Brethiliath sees a fair amount of visitors - mainly elves, but also a handful of human sages interested in such matters.
I dare say it is a mistake...right?
I wondered about this too, but I'm surprised you didn't mention this ages ago Marco, when it was first posted. :P Anyway, what could it be replaced by? The elves of Wendar surely still need some sort of clan relic - or do the shrines fill that role too?
Gary, thanks for reminding me of your last name, I'll put it in the next update. By chance your name is in the right place alphabetically even without your last name. ;)
The problem is the mountains. The original source, X11, shows the borders quite clearly for the whole region. Glantri and Denagoth claim all the mountains, and Wendar and Heldann have none of them. This is bourne out by GAZ3's Glantri map, and repeated on other sources, so as far as I'm concerned the Wendarian Range is not up for debate - it belongs to Glantri.
The Menguls, on the other hand, have no such clear sources, and in fact X11 is almost the only source available for the area. The only others are Wrath of the Immortals and the Poor Wizard's Almanacs (which give line-art maps for Wendar and part of Heldann). Wrath of the Immortals gives both Wendar and Heldann portions of the Menguls, but it also gives Wendar part of the Wendarian Range. Moreover, that particular map has so many errors and inconsistencies in its borders that I am loath to trust it as a source for borders at all. Plus, the Almanacs loosely follow the X11 borders, ignoring Wrath of the Immortals.
The bottom line, though, is that there is no real problem with giving Wendar and Heldann parts of the Mengul Mountains. There are no sources to conflict with, and the maps require judgement calls anyway, so it is not a big deal. If we consider it better for them to claim the edges of the mountains, that's fine.
The only slight problem I can see is explaining why Wendar claims part of the Menguls but almost none of the Wendarian Range. Something to do with their relations with Glantri? Wendar has been around for much longer, though it only became a single nation recently. Is it conceivable that the Glantrians would be able to claim the whole range?
One possible explanation would be the shrines and the protection web - perhaps it doesn't cover any mountainous terrain?
I await your ideas. (Also apologies for my sudden deluge of posts in this thread of late! In case you missed some of them, they actually started at the bottom of the last page...
)I would take the view that the mountain borders are ill-defined with each government officially claiming some or all of the mountains. But, no one really wants to fight over the mountains, so it stays a diplomatic argument and nothing more. Now maybe that changes if profittable mines are found, or the threats of monsters increase, forcing one or both sides to send soldiers to solidify the border and protect outlying settlements.
I was wondering about Avariel (Winged Elves). Is there any chance there could be some tribes of them in the Mengul mountains?
Actually, another solution might be simply to limit the mountains Wendar claims in the Menguls. It certainly seems from the official maps that Wendarians have little or no desire for mountainous terrain (similar to the Ethengarian apparent disdain of mountains, perhaps). Then the lack of claims in the Wendarian Range wouldn't seem so strange...
Regarding the avariel, I don't see why not. They like mountain terrain, right? Presumably we want them far from civilisation, so somewhere in the Mengul Mountains might be best - in the spur between Wendar and Heldann, for example. That area is nominally claimed by Denagoth, but that isn't really relevant given the likely impassability of the mountains at that point. Geoff's Heldann map even has some nice little valleys marked in.
Oh, I updated the map, by the way. I added in quite a bit more forest around the main towns, and expanded both the Dark Woods of Baamor and the Korrigan Forest to make them a little less fragmented. A few other changes too.
While I agree that both countries claiming part of the mountains could be a good solution in theory, unfortunately it is a horrible solution for us cartographers! I'd much rather we came up with a plausible reason to explain the situation of Glantri claiming the whole Wendarian Range.
From a cartography standpoint, perhaps on the 8m map show the Glantrian border as per the official maps, but add in a second line 2 to 3 hexes inside the indicating the extent of Wendar's claims (and limits of their patrols and watchtowers to guard the passes into Wendar) Larger maps just have the official border. But since i'm not the cartographer, I'll leave that call up to you
I'm on a very much overdue vacation right now (apologies to those who've been trying to contact me), but here are my thoughts on recent traffic:
The gazetteer is excellent, Thorf! This is the ideal time to put something like this together, and there's a good crop of people here to make it happen. I would be more than happy to send you the compilation of work Shawn, Marco and I had done a couple of years ago. Marco is right - we did have a table of contents that might help organise things. If you can wait until Monday, I'd be happy to send it along.
Map is beautiful, as always! :D Feel free to change names as necessary for consistency's sake.
On Marco's point on Brethiliath - yes, that was a mistake on my part. I had assumed that Wendarian clans had some sort of relic, and that's what I had put down. By all means change it - the idea was to have the village be a place where elvish religious relics *of some sort* were held, where sages would visit from time to time.
Geoff
PS - I haven't forgotten about the northern wildlands work. I *do* plan to get it done soon.
I see what you mean. But what about the ice over Glantri? Doesn't GAZ3 say that Glantri is covered by ice until as late as 800 BC? Wendar's location would seem to imply that it too would be covered with ice until that time, wouldn't it? Then again, Wendar is a big plain among the mountains, while Glantri seems much more glacial, with many small valleys. Perhaps the ice over Wendar retreated much faster...?
Well Thorf, you have to really pay attention to dates here.
I Know I will be going way off topic here, but it deserves, so bear with me.
BEFORE The GRoF, the area known as Ethengar was the NORTH POLE, that is canon. This means that they were completely frozen. Hollow World says:
"BC 3000 - 2500: Formerly artic areas of the Known World, including most of the land covered in the Gazetteer series, slowly become habitable as ice recedes from former polar regions... ...The Immortals create new, gigantic, fog -clad opening to the outside world and seal up the former (smaller) polar openings."
A Mystaran fan and great cartographer known as Lo Zompatore in our Italian MB created a whole thread of great maps to show how Mystara pre-Blackmoor was and how it rotated.
It's a bit difficult to explain in English because I lack the technical terminology, but basically he took all maps of Mystara presented in Master set, Hollow World set and WotI (type Eckert IV) and redraw it adjusting it a bit on the poles (the more stretched and deformed by this type of map) and hypothesizing the tropics at 23°N (and 23°S) and polar circles at 90°-23°=67°N (and 67°S).
That is the redrawn (sketchy) map of Mystara POST GRoF.
Then he rotated Mystara on its axis taking some facts as evidences:
- Ethengar was the north pole. PWAs make explicit reference to this fact:
Poor wizard's Almanac I, pages 29-30, Ethengar:
"Before the Great Rain of Fire, the catastrophe of 3000BC, which changed the very axes of the world, this region was the North Pole of the Known World. Once the catastrophe changed the planet's axial rotation this area gradually thawed, became overgrown with thick grass, and attracted a race of yellow - skinned hunter-gatherers."
page 37, Glantri (andl GAZ 3):
"In the most ancient times, Glantri was a frozen wasteland. After the ancient civilization of Blackmoor destroyed itself and changed the planetary axis, the region thawed a little..."
This way he calculated HOW MUCH the world's axis shifted.
Ethengar steppes are located more or less on these coordinates: 33N, 32W in reference to Sundsvall meridian.
Current North Pole is obviously 90N, 0W, so the axis rotation is:
Latitude: 90-33 = 57° towards new equator.
Once the old North Pole is known, the Old South Pole can be calculated as well by applying a minus to its latitude and rotating 180° the longitude. This way we find that:
Old South Pole: 33S, 148E in reference to Sundsvall meridian
(this is a point off the coasts of Cape Fire, in the easternmost region of modern days Vulcania)
Now the difficult part.
Eckert IV projection represents Mystara rotated 57° of latitude and 32° of longitude.
He took the 400 points he used to draw new Mystara map and put them in a program which automatically rotated its axis (he goes to great length to explain HOW he inserted the data in the program, but I'll skip ;)). The result was this (he added modern days name to various regions to make it all look clearer):
And here's the modified map according to canon sources in HW, showing where the land-bridges were and where earth masses were submerged in BC 4000.
Okay, that is what I was trying to point you out. As you can see, the region of Ethengar, Broken Lands, Glantri, Wendar, etc.. is a frozen area, the arctic region, before the GRoF. That is why it was covered by ice.
AFTER the GRoF, it shifts southwards, which makes it more habitable. However, with the Glantrian catastrophe (BC 1700), Glantri, the Broken Lands and part of Ethengar and even Wendar and I dare say the northern Darokin enter another dark era, because the nuclear cloud brings sickness, disease and a nuclear winter over them. That is why Glantri is being referred as covered in winter till the date you mention (BC800): it was the nuclear winter scenario that Shawn and I had already described in our Wendar-Denagoth timeline.
Mind you, the explosion blasted the Broken Lands, created the Land of Black Sand and probably blasted the Silver Sierras to to some extent. The cloud later covered wide areas of Glantri, west Ethengar and Wendar bringing with it rotting disease (radiations) and a nuclear winter which lasted 1000 years for Glantri and upper Broken Lands (Wendar did survive better thanks to the Elvenstar).
PS: if you are interested, there are more maps showing the exact location and colonies of Blackmoor's empire in Zompatore's thread. I'll link them somewhere else if you want (I will never cease applauding and promoting his marvelous job) ;)
I just checked out the new background for Idris - very nice. I'm interested in the N'djatwa link. Were you intending to link her to the present N'djatwa society too? I can't remember much about their beliefs, although I read their part of the Princess Ark again just a few months ago.
They LOOKED pretty civilized to Haldemar, but the fact that they are cannibals doesn't really sound well with me. Also they made him believe they were the result of ogre-elves interbreeding, but again, what kind of serious elf would let herself impregnate by an ogre (oh the pain!) And what kind of ogre would (could) be impregnated by an elf??? Seriously, this is the worst kind of crossbreed Bruce ever wrote. It is likely they lied to Haldemar to hide their true origins or simply they had forgotten the details and did just make up this story with the few memories they had.
IMHO the Altar of the Stars presented in that article is an Entropic device that melds races together. The n'djatwa were created mixing elves and original beastmen, and later evolved into this race. I believe they are strong followers of Idris and Hel (probably using other names).
I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to... Are you talking about your history of Wendar? It does seem that it will need to be updated quite significantly given the recent developments with the Korrigans, Idris, the Elvenstar, etc.
Yes, definitely MAJOR updates. We had thought Wendar was a local hero who formed the Wendarian LEague, but now it seems more likely to be a word for Unity in elvish-antalian. We also need to change other stuff, but we'll get to that in due time. ;)
Okay, that's what I thought you'd say. Hmmm... Don't you want me to place a shrine, or the ruins of shrine in the Dark Woods of Baamor, then? Perhaps on the Moors of Chlyras... At least the remains of the shrine Idris' exploited should still be there, right? Perhaps she even has a temple there now, complete with evil Idris clerics and such. ;)
Well, in fact yes, there is still the old shrine of the Black Wing (or is it better another name, like Ebon Eyes?) there, but Idris has not exploited it in all these centuries for a reason I had not mentioned previously..
I theorized that reason ceased to exist in AC1018, and that's why I had some events for Wendar detailing strange figures and chants spotted in the Woods of Baamor. Unfortunately I never went on detailing the future events...
I wondered about this too, but I'm surprised you didn't mention this ages ago Marco, when it was first posted. :P Anyway, what could it be replaced by? The elves of Wendar surely still need some sort of clan relic - or do the shrines fill that role too?
They already HAVE a relic: The ELVENSTAR! And obviously the Nine Shrines, you are right! They never knew the ToL because they broke off Ilsundal's migration before he created it. They are in the same position of Meditor, Verdier and Sheyallia, so they need another relic. The Elvenstar and the Korrigans' shrines fill this niche.
Gary, thanks for reminding me of your last name, I'll put it in the next update. By chance your name is in the right place alphabetically even without your last name. ;)
Indeed, I noticed that too! :D :P
BTW, I still have the stuff Geoff wrote regarding new skills (Skiing) and rules (hypothermy) useful for Wendar, as well as other stuff about fighting orders and magic of Wendar posted by various people over the old Mystara NetMags ;)
- Introduction (if any) - up to 1 page but no more
(Make this a sort of outline for Wendar - tells the DM what the setting's all about, etc.)
- History (Players and DM) - *Players' can be inserted into Players' Guide* Players' between 1-2, DM's Timeline is already done (we'll have to cut the events detailing Denagoth only though), about 6-7 pages *maybe we could add some explanations on difficult or obscure points*
(a player's guide can be full of misinformation (chance for us to have some fun)).
- Geography (Description of wendarian geographic features) - 1-3 pages
(a good place to put weird features, like magical pools, etc.)
- Climate (Description of wendarian seasons, possible climatic events and temperatures) 1-2 pages
(perhaps we should break Wendar into definable climate zones. Wendar would have a different climate (cool and damp, from the breezes from the sea), while westerb Wendar could be drier (sheltered by the Adri Varma Plateau from humid breezes to the southwest, etc.). Just a guess.)
- Flora and Fauna -- 2-3 pages
- Society (Elven & Human Customs/Way of Life, Interracial relationships) - big section, up to 10-15 pages
(This is where we get to play with half-elves. We need a history of the relationships, how they stand today. And information on the immortals too.
Also, in this section we'll have to deal with its customs, feasts, religion).
[Note for the Wendar gaz: we should insert a special yearly ceremony where elves and humans remember the old times when the elves helped the humans and vice versa and thus renew their common friendship]
- Politics & Laws (Burocracy in Wendar: what are the main politic roles and laws) - 2-3 pages
- Economy (Import-export, wendarian goods and economic system + coins) - 1-2 pages
- Military (army and divisions, maybe Warmachine stats) - 1-2 pages
- Settlements (describing the major towns presented in PWA map, plus other minor villages and elven strongholds) - lots of stuff here, say up to 7 pages (if we want we can make it shorter or longer, no problem)
- Wendar City (map and key of major locations) - say 2-3 pages + map
- Monsters of Wendar (humanoid communities and other monsters found here -new monsters entries if any) - up to 4 pages or more if we want to introduce new monsters
- Personalities of Wendar (NPC description in Alfheim GAZ style) - we should include all important townsleaders, plus the King, a few advisors and sages (Bensarian), some local heroes/villains, and common NPCs from various social layers, for a total of about 10 pages
According to my Wendar entry, these are the Major NPCs of Wendar to detail after WotI:
King Gylharen (male, Elf-Mage 11)
Bensarian of Kevar (human -or half-elf?-, male, M9*)
Doriath** (exiled Alfheim King, male, Elf Lord, At Rnk E)
Clanmaster Brendan Erendyl** (female Elf 8)
Clanmaster Durifern Widefarer** (male, Elf Lord, At Rnk D)
Clanmaster Beasthunter** (male, Elf Mage 13)
Starwatcher** (male, Elf Mage 20)
Hotspur Herethol*** (male, M12)
*he was M3 about 80 years ago (X11), i think he can be M9 or more powerful by now
** all these people will come to Wendar only in AC 1009 and we can use the old GAZ5 ref if we don't want to type new things (writing after the brief notes between parenthese: "See page XX of GAZ5 for stats")
*** this guy's from Book of Wondrous inventions and he's the inventor of the selecto staff. I'll make him an eccentric wizard-inventor who owns a shop in Wendar City..
Also we will have to detail the three human burgomeisters and the three elven townleaders of the major towns (that's how i planned the towns to be ruled..) and then some of the movers (leader of the Idris Church in disguise, leader of the Alfheim Avengers of Wendar, religious leaders of the elves and humans, for example) and heroes of Wendar.
- Secrets of Wendar (description of Elvenstar and powers as an artifact, Nine Shrines of the Korrigans, some Korrigan relics, new elven spells and some magical items unique for Wendar) - at least 4-5 pages or more
(shall we put here info on the most mysterious areas like Laughing Woods and Forest of Shadows??)
- Shadows of Wendar (secret cults/associations -Idris Church, Order of the Black Wing/Ebon Eyes, The Tenth Shrine, Human Rights Movement and Alfheim Avengers?- and other shady secrets not related or known to most of wendarians) - can be up to 7-8 pages
- Adventure Ideas (we should have a couple adventure plots for Basic, Expert and Companion levels, a Master one, and offer ideas for the hidden plots going on in Wendar) - 5-6 pages
(My suggestion: 2-3 basic adventures, 2-3 expert adventures, 1-2 companion, and 1 master level. In all, each adventure plot should be no more than 1/2-3/4 of a page, giving out stats as needed, but trying to tie in NPCs and so on. Make the DM use the book. And perhaps having ideas for existing Wendar characters and ones for ways to introduce non-Wendar characters to the area.)
- Player's Guide to Wendar -- up to 10 pages or more, it depends what we come up with
(We can include new skills (unique to Wendar?), Wendarian opinions of foreigners/other races, perhaps a few tidbits about Denagoth (IMO, we have to mention it at least) and What everyone Knows about Wendar. a brief introduction of Wendar's aspects by wendarians (maybe a human and an elf), what others think about Wendar and what Wendarians think about neighbours, and maybe typical wendarian tools and such..)
I was thinking about the secrets, spells and half-elves.. Some gaz have these things in the Player's Book (GAZ11, GAZ12, GAZ13), while others in the DM's book (GAZ5, GAZ6). What to do exactly? Is the Player's Guide designed for a Wendarian player or for any PC to read and understand better Wendar?
As for references to Denagoth, we'll have them in the Politics, History and probably society sections, some things can also be mentioned in Player's Handbook, but remember: Denagoth is a mystery to everyone until the Honor Crusade. Part of the mystery will be unveiled only by AC 1016, when Professor Dove himself will know the Puppetmaster..
Player's Book (to be done after the DM book has been completed)
- What everyone knows about Wendar: This is for non wendarians and should be written like the entries in GAZ5. Each one of us will take an outsider from a different nation and give his point of view on Wendar and wendarians.
- Player's History
- Wendar Society (introduction by an elf and a human)
- Wendarian Skills
- Half-Elf Class
- Guilds and Organizations
(Perhaps players' perceptions (ie untrue, partly true) of the groups in the DM's guide should go here. Also, when a PC joins a group, the material in the PC guide is what they will learn. Only if/when they reach the upper ranks would they learn the truth (what's in the DM's guide).)
- Secrets of Wendar: basically a rough version of the DM Secrets section (outsider description of magic places) and description of new spells or magic items should go here. Note: common magic items will go here, while rare or legendary items will go in the DM section.
- Map of Wendar (color)
City Description Format:
Name:
Population: (number and percentage of races)
Overview: (basic description)
Interesting Points: (specific locations to mention -no more than three for minor villages and five for major towns)
NPCs: (main NPCs of the settlement with a VERY brief description if they're not described in NPC section and stats in parentheses almanac style)
Secrets: (optional: you can list here the secret of the town or in the description and interesting points sections..)
Thanks for giving us a summary of his findings here!I'm going to have to have a good long look at those maps.
One of the most interesting parts is the page limits. On the Internet we tend to work without any limits, thinking that we have the freedom to make things as long as we like. But I have come to the conclusion that actually limits can be a very good thing, because they force you to distill your work down into less space, trimming the less important parts and putting more emphasis on the central themes.
I think that the Mystaran Almanacs suffer from this lack of limits to the extreme, which unfortunately discourages me from keeping up to date with reading them; I'd like to read them, but I forgot what happened in the earlier ones and they are just too long to read through again.
Anyway, I applaud the idea of trying to keep things within a reasonable number of pages.
I'm not entirely sure how to continue with this project. There is obviously a lot of work to be done in order to bring it anywhere near completion, but I don't think I am really the right person to be leading it. Marco, you are clearly the godfather when it comes to Wendar, and I get the feeling that you have a strong concept in mind for Wendar - around which everything else should be built. But at the same time, you seem to have your hands pretty full with other major projects (and real life commitments) too.
I wonder, how should we proceed from here?
Westerly winds from the Wildlands plateau dropping rain due to meeting cooler winds from the north or from changes due to altitude climbing over the mountain ranges maybe more likely.
Dawnblossom-Qvar - In 862 AC [date needs checked with Glantri timeline] a group of halflings and dwarves
The Years of Infamy start in 802 AC (according to GAZ 3) but there's no real indication when they end (from what I could see). Alexander Glantri forms the country in AC 829, but whether the slaughter has finished I don't know. However 862 AC seems a little late, maybe we could move it to 822 AC(or thereabouts).
Whilst on the subject of Dawnblossom-Qvar, what do people think of my idea of having it as part of an underground railroad smuggling dwarves and hin out, and perhaps spies into Glantri.
Regards,
Gary
That said, it is okay to have descendants of expatriated dwarves and hins in Dawnblossom-Qvar living side by side with elves, but I wonder if after 180 years (one generation for hins, nearly so for dwarves) there are still halflings and dwarves bent on revenge against Glantri. And what could they do exactly? I make you note that Wendar borders Boldavia in that area, so it's not an easy route through Glantri... I'm not that convinced of the likeliness of this scenario.
OTOH, avariels in Wendar? How come?
We have ee'aars in the Arm of the Immortals which are somehow explained , but what kind of origin could another identical race of winged elves in Wendar have? This is tricky at best... I'm open to suggestions though, but I find this idea difficult to adapt to the campaign as we know it.
That said, it is okay to have descendants of expatriated dwarves and hins in Dawnblossom-Qvar living side by side with elves, but I wonder if after 180 years (one generation for hins, nearly so for dwarves) there are still halflings and dwarves bent on revenge against Glantri. And what could they do exactly? I make you note that Wendar borders Boldavia in that area, so it's not an easy route through Glantri... I'm not that convinced of the likeliness of this scenario.
On reflection, I have to agree with you Marco, but Dawnblossom-Qvar could have initially started out as such a place but as you say after 180 years it's now just a regular village.
Regards,
Gary
Regarding the avariel, I don't see why not. They like mountain terrain, right? Presumably we want them far from civilisation, so somewhere in the Mengul Mountains might be best - in the spur between Wendar and Heldann, for example. That area is nominally claimed by Denagoth, but that isn't really relevant given the likely impassability of the mountains at that point. Geoff's Heldann map even has some nice little valleys marked in.
Yes you got it right. The prefer areas away form civilization and usually high mountain ranges are perfect. I like the Mengul mountains since the Avariel are related to elves in a distant way, and my not mind flying down to Wendar once ain a while, maybe even to see these religious relics you guys are working on. Thanks Thorf.
In the beginning of times, we know Ordana created elves and placed them in Evergrun and Davania (and possibly Skothar as well). We also now that the original elves were divided between forest dwellers AND sea-dwellers (the Aquarendi originally are undersea elves, go read PC3). Now, that makes me think: what if Ordana created land elves, sea elves and even sky elves? The Sky elves would live in the Sky Kingdom together with cloud and storm giants and the faeries, so they'd be basically unknown to their land brethren.
Now, Savage Coast has the legend of the ee'aars, who split from Ilsundal's migration and settled in Arm of Immortals. One of them, an elfin named Aeryl, went to visit the realm of the faeries and came back with wings, and later she passed her gift onto her people.
My point is: what if this Aeryl merely discovered the existence of the winged elves and invited them to dwell in the Arm of Immortals (or maybe some of them were exiled because of some guilt and chose to follow Aeryl to her mountain realm)? What if marriage between land elves and sky elves created the ee'aar race, a mixed blood capable of flying? That could mean the sky elves exist everywhere you want, very high in the sky, and occasionally could come down wherever you want, but they prefer dwelling up there instead of staying in the realms of earthlings. ;)
I like the flexibility too. Having them living in the sky makes them mobile, and gives them access to the whole world - although I do wonder why the Princess Ark never collided with any cloud giant castles or faedorne shining isles!
Perhaps it would make sense to link the Rainbow Path to the faedorne and the sky elves...
There is one minor problem, though... Why would Ordana create a race of creatures who don't have anything to do with greenery and nature?
I have a solution there too, though: perhaps Ordana made a deal with the faedorne. In order to get them to care for and teach her newly created elven race, she created another adapted form of elves who could live with and serve the faedorne. That would serve Ordana as well as the faedorne.
Over time, the sky elves prospered and outgrew their masters, forcing some of them to leave the faedorne and find new homes when their population became too great.
I would prefer to keep Aeryl as a winged elf, too. Perhaps she went on a quest to the realm of the faeries, and met sky elves there. She could have been rewarded her wings for the fulfillment of her quest, and returned to her people with a clan of sky elves, who then intermingled with Aeryl's clan, causing the majority of the clan to become ee'aar in just a generation or two.
;)So let's start again.
1. WHY did Ordana create sea and sky-elves?
We know Ordana created the first land-dwelling elves and I theorized therefore that she could have created also sea and sky elves. However the question about why an immortal so fixed with woods did create a race which didn't dwell in forests is a pertinent one.
Look at what we find in PC3, Sea People when talking about Aquarendi (page 20):
"The aquatic elves are known as the Aquarendi and can be found throughout the oceans of the world. they prefer to live close to other elves whenever possible"
"Originally creatures of the sea, the aquatic elves left the waters to live upon the land, where they flourished along with the land elves in Evergrun... ...In time, the elves met traders from Blackmoor who told them of the great achievements of the Blackmoor culture. The elves that were later to be known as the Aquarendi saw the error of the elvish race in accepting the technological ways of Blackmoor... ...Altough some elves listened, the majority ignored the Aquarendi, calling them fools and dremaers. Anxious to escape the impending holocaust the Aquarendi called on the Immortals of Time to aid them. They were answered by Manwara... ...Manwara restored to the Aquarendi the ability to breathe and live underwater [BC3100]. The Aquarendi departed from their kin with great sorrow and entered the warm seas. Never very large in number, the Aquarendi dropped from the pages of Elven Chronicles: their existence was forgotten entirely in the years of suffering that followed the destruction of Evergrun and Blackmoor."
So you see, they called on the powers of Time, and ONLY MANWARA did answer! Ordana was the elves' patroness, Calitha was probably a young immortal by that time, but ONLY MANWARA answered!
WHY?
THEORY 1.
Maybe Ordana did not create them. MAYBE they were created by Calitha as part of the path of the Dynast. She took her clan with her and went to dwell in the sea in BC 3700. When she disappeared, many returned to Evergrun in BC 3500. Later while traveling through time, she reappeared and helped them survive the GRoF by making them pray Manwara to obtain again the ability to live underwater in BC 3100. That's why they didn't pray Ordana or Calitha: they wanted to return to the sea (and Calitha was not an immortal by that time).
If we go on with this theory, we need to find another creator for sky elves. But maybe there are no sky elves at all, and the ee'aars were indeed the first and only clan of winged elves, gifted by the faeries on behalf of Aeryl. This means winged elves are restricted only to the Immortals' Arm, and possibly the realm of the Faeries.
THEORY 2.
Ordana did create all of the elven races and left them to the faedorne's guardianship for a time.
Being an immortal not just fixed with woods but with nature in general, she later transplanted them in 4 different environments to see where they could flourish better. So you have wood elves (in Evergrun and Skothar), sea elves (Aquarendi), sky elves (ee'aars in the Sky Kingdom), and mountain elves (Hatwa of Davania).
We are free to choose or add more theories.
2. THE Sky Kingdom
Let's face it: it IS a reality, since that's the place where Faeries and Cloud and Storm giants live. So are there really physical clouds with cities and gardens built atop on Mystara, or are we merely talking about another plane (plane of Air or outer planes)?
I believe there ARE wandering chunks of clouds that have been rendered solid and fertile through magics, which comprise the so-called Sky Kingdom.
Since they drift on magical currents (prolly akin to the currents that follow the floating continents in the Hollow World) and that they are not huge (the biggest are as large as one of Karameikos' baronies) there is little chance for flying ships (which are not really abundant anyway) to meet them, unless they discover their course. And obviously, the fact that they exist very high in the atmosphere, prolly above 15000', makes them all the more difficult to discover (since I doubt the flying ships sail that high to avoid air loss).
That could solve the issue "why nobody ever noticed them" ;)
The issue of the ee'aars origins still remains... as well as their base of worship (Ordana? Simurgh? Odin? Brom? Palartarkan?).
I'm open to suggestions..
I reckon I put out too many ideas at once, but that's the deal with brainstorming
So let's start again.
1. WHY did Ordana [a forest deity] create sea and sky-elves?
So you see, they called on the powers of Time, and ONLY MANWARA did answer! Ordana was the elves' patroness, Calitha was probably a young immortal by that time, but ONLY MANWARA answered!
WHY?
I kind of like your first theory, but I also like this one: Manwara saw what Ordana did, and said, "Those elves are pretty neat - I want some." So he made the first aquatic elves, but they didn't hold his attention as much as he thought and he gradually abandoned them. At that point they ventured out onto land looking for a new patron. When they started praying again, he felt guilty for having abandoning them and gave them one last gift, the return of their aquatic abilities in order to survive the cataclysm, but by that time they had mainly started following Calitha so they never really returned to Manwara (except, perhaps, for a small cult - there's always a small cult).
The same thing could have happened for sky elves, some other deity might also have wanted to get in on the fun, but again weren't as dedicated to the upkeep of their new race so they never flourished. In this theory Ordana still gets credit as the originator of the elves, and the other branches are merely copies made by other Immortals who liked the race, making it fitting that they're more obscure.
...there's always a small cult.
I love that!With all the talk of possible creators for the various sub-species of elf, I remembered how I've wished there were more groups and cliques of Immortals such as the ones shown in the WotI Codex book. The more and varied these relationships, the possiblity for Immortal-level politics and Intrigue. We could have a group of three (or four, if including the mountain elves) Immortals who came together to create these various elves for some reason.
This still leaves many options from this point on. Is the group still active? Was there a falling out? I know DM has a very good understanding of the inter-relations between Immortals and might be able to use this.
I think they should be spread out more. They can fly afterall and when their population outgrows the remote regions they live, some may travel abroud to found new tribes or colonies.
This makes perfect sense. Mountainous regions are generally very limited in the population it can support. Once resources are burdened, the elves would be likely to organize a group to migrate in search of a new home. And being fliers (and elves; i.e. patient, picky, and curious), they very well could travel considerable distance.
Other things could cause them to move as well. Humanoids like mountains (or get stuck with them until they can attack whoever possesses the land at the foot of the mountains). I'd doubt the winged elves would want to put up much of a fight. They are less prolific then humanoids so would be outnumbered and probably are not greatly attached to the land; only being there for a generation or two, if that.
We don't have elves in Skothar, we don't have many elves left in Davania (only Hatwa), we don't have elves in Ochalea or the Pearl Islands. So what's the deal with winged elves everywhere?
Also, ee'aars cannot sustain flying for long periods of time, and they're not famous for their stamina. What makes you think they would move every time there are problems from one location to another? not counting the fact that elves have to eat, so if it's difficult for humans to live on mountains, it'll be as much difficult for elves too (they don't live on thin air, mind you?
)Anyway, I suppose we may go with the idea that Ordana created the first elves, and Protius created his own version of sea-dwelling elves in a sort of competition with her.
Later the sea elves (Aquarendi) abandoned him, so he turned away from them. Then Calitha, one of these Aquarendi, grew earthsick and strove to return to the sea. She managed to convince most of her kin to ask Manwara to forgive them and restore their aquatic abilities. At the end of her quest, she succeeded and the Aquarendi returned in the oceans (BC3100). This was the beginning of her Path of the Dynast. Later she guided the aquatic elves (Aquarendi) and the descendants of the land Aquarendi (Meditor) to create their own kingdom by traveling through time in 3 different periods, and she ascended to immortality after the Meditors finally settled in reformed Minrothad isles and the Aquarendi went to live nearby (between BC 2000 and BC 1700). That solves the problem of sea elves as we know them (underwater and above water).
Now on to the sky elves. again 2 theories come to my mind.
1. The Faerie Bargain
The Ee'aar clan decides to settle in the Immortals' Arm in BC 2300, when Ilsundal's migration crosses the Strait of Izonda and reaches Brun.
However, in BC 1310 the humanoids led by Wogar move south-westwards from Urzud and arrive in the Savage Coast and in the Immortals' Arm. Here they threaten the elven civilization.
Aeryl clan lives in the forested plains of the the eastern Arm of Immortals (now occupied by orcish tribes), so she tries to do her best to protect them. She asks the ancient elven protectors to help them, and the faedorne answer. Aeryl travels to the realm of the faeries and she bargains with them. The faeries come down and help the elves resist the humanoids' pressure, but it's not enough. In order to survive they are granted a wish by the faeries: in exchange for eternal loyalty and assistance against the storm giants, they'll be granted wings to reach the highest peaks and survive there. So the winged ee'aars are created around BC 1250.
2. Spawn of Brom
The ee'aar were created as sky elves by Brom, patron of cloud and storm giants, in an attempt to emulate Ordana's children. The ee'aars were created as a servitor race to dwell in the Sky Kingdoms around BC 3500. After many centuries, a group of ee'aars led by young Aeryl refused to obey her master's wills and rebelled. They killed all their masters and gained control over one of the Sky Baronies. When the other Storm giants came to know, they dispatched armies to quell the rebellion and bring justice over the treacherous elves. At this point, the elves of Aeryl abandoned the Sky Kingdoms and retreated in the mountains of the Immortals' Arm under the protection of the elven immortals Eiryndul and Ilsundal (say around BC 1000) founding their kingdom and mingling with sparse elven clans living there (descendants of some elves who split from Ilsundal's migration in BC 2200). Ever since they have dwelt there, befriending the winged enduks and keeping an eye against possible retaliations from the Sky Kingdom.
Opinions?
In any case, just a little reminder that this whole discussion spawned from an innocent suggestion to add a tribe of two of ee'aar to Wendar. I'd like to get our discussion back on track, and I think there are a few posts on the last page that are still waiting for answers. ;)
And speaking of questions, I was wondering where does the name Dawnblossom-Qvar come? I mean, is it elvish or common? What should it mean exactly? It would be like say calling a city in England Whitebridge-Shinsei... how's it possible??
Edit: This reminds me, we still desperately need to "normalise" the place names for Wendar. It's a big priority for me, since it affects the map quite a lot. ;)
Unanswered questions: sorry if some of these sound a bit tedious, most of them came up while I was editing the stuff from this thread. (By the way, these weren't all aimed just at Marco. Anyone should feel free to chip in!)
1. I've edited the following paragraph slightly to fit the map, but I was wondering if the line about there being many shrines was still valid? Obviously the forest now includes one of the big 9 shrines, but there aren't any others currently marked. Can we assume this refers to smaller shrines, or should we cut the line?
The first and most important one, Korrigan Forest, lies in the western part of the nation. Two of Wendar’s most thriving cities are situated around the forest; Wendar City is enclosed by the western groves, while Sylvair lies on the western edge of the forest. The Korrigan Forest is renowned for the beauty of its sequoias and for the many shrines sacred to the Korrigans, the Nine Elven Protectors that watch upon Genalleth. The legend says that they drew their name from the mythical (and believed extinct) korrigan, a woodland animal that once lived here.
2. How much are the centaurs part of Wendar? To what extent do they participate in the government? Do they show themselves outside their village or the forest? Are they known to the elves or do they remain another secret of the evil woods?
3. Marco's description of the roads leading into Wendar refers to two passes, Kevar Pass and the Elven Pass. Kevar Pass is an actual mountain pass, but the Elven Pass is in fact a path, passing between the end of the Wendarian Range and the edge of the Adri Varma Plateau. Is it okay to still call this a pass?
4. (Not so much of a question as a proposal...) Marco, it seemed like you had some sort of secret in mind for these shrines. It seems to me that this could be an excellent opportunity to give some more depth to our gazetteer and insert some really cool secrets.
So far we know that the shrines combine with the Elvenstone to form a protective net around Wendar. Let's develop this idea a bit more, and tie it in to the history.
Presumably the Elvenstone was lost at some point after the Korrigans gained Immortality, so it seems likely that Wendar had some sort of "Golden Age" back when the Korrigans were still mortals. Their creation of the Shrines of the Nine and the Elvenstone surely have various effects on the surrounding lands.
One idea would be to give each shrine a set of effects, which are applied to the lands around each shrine, diminishing in effect the further away from the shrine you go. Alternatively each shrine could "project" these effects inward, because many shrines are located close to the borders.
These effects could be subtle, for example making those in the radius of effect more caring towards nature, or influencing them towards certain activites or beliefs. They could even have effects similar to the Elfstone, and gradually change all Wendar's inhabitants into elves!
What effect does the tenth shrine have? This could explain the situation in the Baamor Woods a little more, too.
All in all, I think these shrines together with the Elfstone could be the key to the whole region, around which everything can be built and moulded.
5. (And this is the most important one!) I'm not entirely sure how to continue with this project. There is obviously a lot of work to be done in order to bring it anywhere near completion, but I don't think I am really the right person to be leading it. Marco, you are clearly the godfather when it comes to Wendar, and I get the feeling that you have a strong concept in mind for Wendar - around which everything else should be built. But at the same time, you seem to have your hands pretty full with other major projects (and real life commitments) too.
I wonder, how should we proceed from here?
BTW, I still have the stuff Geoff wrote regarding new skills (Skiing) and rules (hypothermy) useful for Wendar, as well as other stuff about fighting orders and magic of Wendar posted by various people over the old Mystara NetMags ;)
I'd love to see all of this too!
Just can't get enough info on Wendar recently. :PI'd be especially interested in what Geoff wrote about skiing, since I have always envisioned the Kogolors as big skiers. The rules could be useful there as well as in Wendar.
Dawnblossom-Qvar is the refugee halfling/dwarf village. The idea was that they couldn't agree on a single name, so they used a double barrelled name consisting of the halfling Dawnblossom plus the Dwarven Qvar.
uhm... doesn't sound that good to me.. I mean the name is nice, but it's not a good idea. Does this mean that the halfling language is ENGLISH? Coz you translated the dwarvish into Qvar but left the hin part in English... :D
1. I've edited the following paragraph slightly to fit the map, but I was wondering if the line about there being many shrines was still valid? Obviously the forest now includes one of the big 9 shrines, but there aren't any others currently marked. Can we assume this refers to smaller shrines, or should we cut the line?
Uhm.. hadn't noticed that. Well, we should just rephrase it because there's only ONE shrine of the Korrigans in Korrigan forest. UNLESS we want to call the 9 shrines something different, like say TEMPLE (that could be another viable solution). So we could have 9 major temples, and many smaller shrines as simple worship places (like standing stones or menhirs).
2. How much are the centaurs part of Wendar? To what extent do they participate in the government? Do they show themselves outside their village or the forest? Are they known to the elves or do they remain another secret of the evil woods?
They should be considered subject to Wendar's laws since they dwell inside the nation (if they commit a crime in one of Wendar's settlement they should be punished for that), and obviously the elves know about them. However, the centaurs stay in their own villages and their elders rule using ancient traditions as guidelines. I still don't know if they're on friendly terms with elves and humans or not (if not, they could be subject to Idris's policy of hatred).
3. Marco's description of the roads leading into Wendar refers to two passes, Kevar Pass and the Elven Pass. Kevar Pass is an actual mountain pass, but the Elven Pass is in fact a path, passing between the end of the Wendarian Range and the edge of the Adri Varma Plateau. Is it okay to still call this a pass?
Is it? Wasn't I referring to the pass near Everyway Tower? Bad memory, I'm confused :D
4. (Not so much of a question as a proposal...) Marco, it seemed like you had some sort of secret in mind for these shrines. It seems to me that this could be an excellent opportunity to give some more depth to our gazetteer and insert some really cool secrets.
So far we know that the shrines combine with the Elvenstone to form a protective net around Wendar. Let's develop this idea a bit more, and tie it in to the history.
It's ElvenSTAR for Idris's sake! :D :P
Anyway, the basic idea I had is that the Korrigans awakened the power of nature tapping into the magical nodes they created (ley lines). In order to summon and control the power of the land, they crafted the Elvenstar which has various powers inside Wendar, including:
* animating plants
* conjuring and controlling animals
* protecting from disease those inside the mystical net
* giving the elves a permanent blessing (bonus to Saves and Hit rolls)
* summoning nature's spirits (elementals and spirits like those of Ethengar)
Presumably the Elvenstone was lost at some point after the Korrigans gained Immortality, so it seems likely that Wendar had some sort of "Golden Age" back when the Korrigans were still mortals. Their creation of the Shrines of the Nine and the Elvenstone surely have various effects on the surrounding lands.
Yes, they lost it somehow in the past, and was later recovered by Bensarian. I dare say the loss of the Elvenstar may be something recent anyway, in order to stay true to the few canonic info on Wendar's history.
One idea would be to give each shrine a set of effects, which are applied to the lands around each shrine, diminishing in effect the further away from the shrine you go. Alternatively each shrine could "project" these effects inward, because many shrines are located close to the borders.
These effects could be subtle, for example making those in the radius of effect more caring towards nature, or influencing them towards certain activites or beliefs. They could even have effects similar to the Elfstone, and gradually change all Wendar's inhabitants into elves!
My idea is that in fact each shrine's keeper also has the power to tap onto each individual shrine's magic to produce some effects which cannot stretch very far from it (say 1 mile radius max). These effects should be connected somehow to each Korrigan, so to make them varied and make each Keeper more in line with the others' relic keepers. Also this way each Keeper is important and necessary inside the elven community, a role which could instead be useless if all the power was concentrated in the Elvenstar properly.
What effect does the tenth shrine have? This could explain the situation in the Baamor Woods a little more, too.
Well, this is still a mystery, but it has something to do with necromancy, undeath, negative energy and raw chaos.
5. (And this is the most important one!) I'm not entirely sure how to continue with this project. There is obviously a lot of work to be done in order to bring it anywhere near completion, but I don't think I am really the right person to be leading it. Marco, you are clearly the godfather when it comes to Wendar, and I get the feeling that you have a strong concept in mind for Wendar - around which everything else should be built. But at the same time, you seem to have your hands pretty full with other major projects (and real life commitments) too.
I wonder, how should we proceed from here?
Hey hey ! You saw what happened when we made this Wendar team, Shawn, Geoff and I? I was technically in charge, and in the end nothing came out! I think we'll just follow the flow and see what we come up with, and if needs be we'll take decisions together ;)
Speaking of which, I had a flash yesterday. What if we call the Forest of Shadows (a common enough name) Forest of the Elders instead? It could be related to Eldars(elders) and dragons still living there, and obviously the Foxwoods could be part of it, with Shadowmere not that far. ;)
uhm... doesn't sound that good to me.. I mean the name is nice, but it's not a good idea. Does this mean that the halfling language is ENGLISH? Coz you translated the dwarvish into Qvar but left the hin part in English... :D
Well, what do GAZ6 and GAZ8 do? Should follow their example.
uhm... doesn't sound that good to me.. I mean the name is nice, but it's not a good idea. Does this mean that the halfling language is ENGLISH? Coz you translated the dwarvish into Qvar but left the hin part in English...
Hey, don't shoot the messenger.
Anyway, unfortunately the hin language is apparently indeed English, going by many of the Five Shires names - Shireton, Fishtickle, Stillpool, Shadowgates, Leadkindle, Deepmoss, etc. Granted there are also those such as Tothmeer, Sateeka, Wereskalot, Aergruth, and of course the old names Shaerdon and Faerdinel (if I'm remembering right), but the precedent is definitely there for something like Dawnblossom.
Personally I have a much bigger problem with the Dwarven bit, since I don't recall any Dwarven names with q (which should be k), and "kv" doesn't seem like a viable consonant pairing for Dwarvish. I would suggest something like "Kavar" instead.
Nope, I'm not a fan of unpronounceable names. Not at all.
And no pointless punctuation either.
Uhm.. hadn't noticed that. Well, we should just rephrase it because there's only ONE shrine of the Korrigans in Korrigan forest. UNLESS we want to call the 9 shrines something different, like say TEMPLE (that could be another viable solution). So we could have 9 major temples, and many smaller shrines as simple worship places (like standing stones or menhirs).
Temple doesn't sound right - it conjures up images of crowds of people... I liked shrine because it rhymes with nine, but we could find another word altogether if you like. ;)
In any case, it would probably be easier to change the names of the other shrine, for example Nione's Memorial or even just Nione's Statue (and use a statue symbol).
The other alternative is still to change the symbol, and that will likely follow naturally if we decide to change the word shrine.
They should be considered subject to Wendar's laws since they dwell inside the nation (if they commit a crime in one of Wendar's settlement they should be punished for that), and obviously the elves know about them. However, the centaurs stay in their own villages and their elders rule using ancient traditions as guidelines. I still don't know if they're on friendly terms with elves and humans or not (if not, they could be subject to Idris's policy of hatred).
It does seem more interesting if they are at least on neutral terms. And it could add a bit of spice to the setting to have them in contact with each other - perhaps cautious trading, or an ancient agreement to aid each other in times of dire need.
Remember though that they are the only non-evil inhabitants of the Dark Woods. There has to be a reason for that, and there also has to be a reason why they haven't been corrupted by Idris. (Or haven't they? :schemes
Is it? Wasn't I referring to the pass near Everyway Tower? Bad memory, I'm confused
(About Elven Pass...) Yes it is (not a mountain pass), and yes you were referring to the pass near Everway Tower: they're one and the same.
There is actually a place nearby where the border on both sides is forested hills, but the forested hills on the Glantrian side are blocked in on all other sides by mountains, so it's hardly a good place for a pass.
It's ElvenSTAR for Idris's sake!
Oops, sorry. :embarrass :P
Anyway, the basic idea I had is that the Korrigans awakened the power of nature tapping into the magical nodes they created (ley lines). In order to summon and control the power of the land, they crafted the Elvenstar which has various powers inside Wendar, including:
* animating plants
* conjuring and controlling animals
* protecting from disease those inside the mystical net
* giving the elves a permanent blessing (bonus to Saves and Hit rolls)
* summoning nature's spirits (elementals and spirits like those of Ethengar)
Interesting. I hope you're going to do a full writeup of it at some point. :D
Yes, they lost it somehow in the past, and was later recovered by Bensarian. I dare say the loss of the Elvenstar may be something recent anyway, in order to stay true to the few canonic info on Wendar's history.
I meant before that. Basically I'm wondering why Wendar wasn't more united in the long years before the modern era, if they had access to the Elvenstar the whole time. Admittedly the Elvenstar by itself isn't the answer to all their worries, but presumably the Korrigans united the country, and it fragmented after they left, right?
My idea is that in fact each shrine's keeper also has the power to tap onto each individual shrine's magic to produce some effects which cannot stretch very far from it (say 1 mile radius max). These effects should be connected somehow to each Korrigan, so to make them varied and make each Keeper more in line with the others' relic keepers. Also this way each Keeper is important and necessary inside the elven community, a role which could instead be useless if all the power was concentrated in the Elvenstar properly.
That would also provide the Wendar clans with clan relics, with which to do the standard clan relic type stuff that elves do. I like keeping those options open, since it's kinda one of the definitions of being a D&D elf.
The Elvenstar alone would not be enough to provide for all the elves in Wendar.Well, this is still a mystery, but it has something to do with necromancy, undeath, negative energy and raw chaos.
(The Tenth Shrine...) Interesting. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing more about that whenever you're ready. :D
Yes sir Mr DM. ;)
Okay, I hear you. Right now we have the project out in the open and running full steam, so I guess I should bite the bullet and keep editing stuff together and nagging you and everyone else with questions.
Speaking of which, I had a flash yesterday. What if we call the Forest of Shadows (a common enough name) Forest of the Elders instead? It could be related to Eldars(elders) and dragons still living there, and obviously the Foxwoods could be part of it, with Shadowmere not that far.
That sounds fine, although doesn't the mileage there vary on whether we consider the Eldar to be canonical or not? What is your conception of them in regards to this?
It does give us a little more to work with atmosphere wise than "Forest of Shadows", which as you say is a bit of a generic name.
More later, I'm being told to hurry up and come to bed and go to sleep.
PS - I had to edit out your smileys before it let me post. Apparently collectively we use too many smileys for people to cope with, Marco! (Insert wink here)
I agree, but I'd change it to Dawnblossom-Kavar.
Kavar is fine with me, but dwarves are the red-headed step-children in our campaign, so I leave that up to those who are more familar with Mystara's dwarves
.In any case, just a little reminder that this whole discussion spawned from an innocent suggestion to add a tribe of two of ee'aar to Wendar. I'd like to get our discussion back on track, and I think there are a few posts on the last page that are still waiting for answers. ;)
Yes, just a tribe or two. Recently moved form another locale. No need ot have them everywhere. All I wanted was a few in Wendar, and maybe some scattered from there to the Arm of the Immortals in remote mountain locations. There don't have to be any on Davania or Skothar or any islands for all I care.
I don't get WHY we should have winged elves everywhere, frankly speaking.
I agree. The Ee'aar have not been on the Immortals' Arm all that long, given elven lifespans, and I think it's an enormous stretch to think that they have had to keep relocating again and again, far enough to reach Wendar. Brun and Alphatia have a LOT of elves as it is--I don't see any compelling reason to keep adding more.
Even if we decide that there are flying elves all over in the sky kingdom, I still don't see why the Mengul Mountains would be where they would choose to settle. If they are simply looking for an isolated mountainous area in the general neighborhood, it seems like there are much better choices:
--Windreach in the Wyrmsteeth (I think natives of the Sky Kingdom would have to be on at least reasonably good terms with some dragons)
--All the mountains in Glantri (including the Wendarian Range): fewer hostile humanoids, and more magic to research
--Remote mountains and hills in the Heldannic Territories: this area is very remote, but I don't think it has the goblinoid population of the Mengul
--The Kurrish Massif: more hospitable climate and fewer goblinoids
--Northeastern Darokin: more hospitable climate and easy access to Alfheim
1. The Faerie Bargain
The Ee'aar clan decides to settle in the Immortals' Arm in BC 2300, when Ilsundal's migration crosses the Strait of Izonda and reaches Brun.
However, in BC 1310 the humanoids led by Wogar move south-westwards from Urzud and arrive in the Savage Coast and in the Immortals' Arm. Here they threaten the elven civilization.
Aeryl clan lives in the forested plains of the the eastern Arm of Immortals (now occupied by orcish tribes), so she tries to do her best to protect them. She asks the ancient elven protectors to help them, and the faedorne answer. Aeryl travels to the realm of the faeries and she bargains with them. The faeries come down and help the elves resist the humanoids' pressure, but it's not enough. In order to survive they are granted a wish by the faeries: in exchange for eternal loyalty and assistance against the storm giants, they'll be granted wings to reach the highest peaks and survive there. So the winged ee'aars are created around BC 1250.
2. Spawn of Brom
The ee'aar were created as sky elves by Brom, patron of cloud and storm giants, in an attempt to emulate Ordana's children. The ee'aars were created as a servitor race to dwell in the Sky Kingdoms around BC 3500. After many centuries, a group of ee'aars led by young Aeryl refused to obey her master's wills and rebelled. They killed all their masters and gained control over one of the Sky Baronies. When the other Storm giants came to know, they dispatched armies to quell the rebellion and bring justice over the treacherous elves. At this point, the elves of Aeryl abandoned the Sky Kingdoms and retreated in the mountains of the Immortals' Arm under the protection of the elven immortals Eiryndul and Ilsundal (say around BC 1000) founding their kingdom and mingling with sparse elven clans living there (descendants of some elves who split from Ilsundal's migration in BC 2200). Ever since they have dwelt there, befriending the winged enduks and keeping an eye against possible retaliations from the Sky Kingdom.
Opinions?
I like aspects of both of your alternatives.
1. I like that this explanation is rooted in the published version of the Ee'aar. However, I'm not convinced that the Faedorne should necessarily come into play--I see them as rather distinct from the seelie court. If the Ee'aar owe unswerving allegiance to someone, I much prefer the idea that it is the fairies, the exiled immortals of entropy. Some day, when the world is changed, the fairies will call in this oath, and the Ee'aar will become, at least metaphorically, angels of death--this is exactly the sort of juxtaposition that makes Mystara fun!
2. This position also certainly has aspects to recommend it. It means that the elven legends of their own origin are not merely lost in legend, but rather deliberately obscured (it hasn't been all that many generations, after all).
How's this for a solution?
Thousands of years ago, the Immorals' Arm lived up to its name: thousands of immortals in exile lived in this remote land, a massive civilization of fairies. They had very little contact with the outside world until Ilsundal happened to lead a migration right through their living room. Great cultural exchanges ensued, with Ilsundal's elves and the fair folk dwelling together for decades--to this day, the peoples descended from Ilsundal's bands share cultural similarities to the seelie court unseen in other elven clans. One of the fairie princesses, with an entourage of hundreds, even accompanied Ilsundal, settling with the elves in the Sylvan Realm. Similarly, many elves felt that they had had enough of wandering and decided to stay among the fair folk. Among those who remained behind were some of the most clever, the most cunning, and the least hardy of the migrants--the delicate, thin, almost fragile appearance of the Ee'aar may be attributed to this fact.
Centuries later, Aeryl, spawn of Brom--some sort of experiments combining captured fairies with elves, led a slaves rebellion. She and her followers fled, finding refuge among the fair folk and elves living still in harmony on the Immortals' Arm. The fairies delighted in these winged elves, and Ilsundal's folk felt, in some ways, second best. Still, they lived in harmony.
Not too long after, the peninsula was again visited. The seers of the Serpent Peninsula had been troubled by visions of the overthrow of the Divinarchy, the slaughter and expulsion of the elves. Powerless against the overwhelming certainty of the future, and seeing the opportunity to increase their own power, many of the elven prophets disguised themselves and their close kin as human, masquerading as Tanogoro while their brethren were murdered and forced to flee. Rather than filling this power vacuum, however, the seers were one-upped by Mulogo, and upstart prophet calling himself the herald of Yav. While they may have resented Mulogo's siezure of power, the undercover elves foresaw in him the path to powers which they had never before imagined: the power of flight. For this reason, in their thirst for power, they became the most dedicated allies of Yav, encouraging the migration to the Immortals' Arm.
The elves and fairies of the Immortals' Arm drew back from the shore and watched the approaching tide of rafts from the east. Shortly after landing, however, Mulogo called together those who were elves in disguise and made his last prophecy to them, basically telling them to leave the Tanogoro forever, seeking their own blood in the West, for only their own blood can truly give them what they seek. The elves recognized the authority in Mulogo and left--once out of sight of the Tanogoro, they revealed themselves as elves and were greeted by the fair folk and elves, both with and without wings. They were taken before the queen of the seelie court, where the greatest of the elven seers drew a dagger, slashing his forearms in a manner learned from the Tanogoro, and swearing a blood oath that he and his descendents would owe allegiance to Her. As he finished speaking, the horrified onlookers saw something move beneath his tunic--then it ripped, and massive wings grew upon his back, black to match his hair.
Soon all the wingless elves in the area had sworn blood oathes to the fairy queen, and they grew wings of their own after the model of Aeryl's descendents. The oaths of undying allegiance are not normally called upon--the seelie court has no need of the elves' services, yet...
In intervening years, there have been increased contacts with other elven groups. From the Sylvan Realm came elves to swell the Ee'aar's ranks, along with the teachings of Ilsundal and Mealiden. In various stray boats and airships, Shiye-Llawr elves have come, entranced by the life among the fair folk and bringing with them word of Eiryndul. Elven survivors have also reached the Ee'aar from Vilaverdan and even Thadder shipwrecks. Many of these survivors seem to report odd lights in the high seas around the Immortals' arm: the flash of a beacon that inexplicably diverted a ship from a safe path, or the merry lights of a port town on what turned out to be a deserted stretch of coastline with rocks lurking offshore. One way or another, it seems clear that the immortals want the elves there, and, invariably, they end up making a blood oath and joining as full-fledged members of the Ee'aar flock.
Thoughts?
I agree, but I'd change it to Dawnblossom-Kavar.
I think Kavar is too much like Kevar--the name of the other range of hills in Wendar. Incidentally, it's also rather like Kavala, the name of yet another range of hills being discussed in a map-spawned thread right now
How about Hardhead? The hin wanted to name it Dawnblossom, but the dwarves adamantly refused. Said it was ridiculous. They bickered long enough that the rest of the kingdom decided they liked one young halfling's suggestion for a name :P
I don't see any compelling reason to keep adding more.
I think you got the wrong impression from some of the posts. Nobody is looking to put winged elves all over the place. However, 2000+ years is plenty of time to support a migration/expansion or three.
I'm only being the 'devil's advocate' here, but the land elves have had tremendous migrations; much greater than twice the movement with twice the time. Among the themes of their migrations is the search for other elves. Wendar is as plausable a place for the winged elves to go as any, IMHO of course. I'd have them as relatively new arrives as well, perhaps 200 - 300 years ago, or even less.
I kind of feel like a druid tring to maintian balance! :P
I think you got the wrong impression from some of the posts. Nobody is looking to put winged elves all over the place. However, 2000+ years is plenty of time to support a migration/expansion or three.
Yes, I think Hugin is right. The discussion about ee'aar generated by tjedge1's suggestion was interesting, but it all started with an innocent desire to add a tribe or two of ee'aar to the area in his own campaign. Things have been blown rather out of proportion.
I kind of feel like a druid tring to maintian balance! :P
I know the feeling. :D
In any case, sorry to put my foot down, but I'd really appreciate if we could move any further discussion of the ee'aar to a new thread. I'm following the discussion with interest, but it has grown way past the topic of this thread.
I think Kavar is too much like Kevar--the name of the other range of hills in Wendar. Incidentally, it's also rather like Kavala, the name of yet another range of hills being discussed in a map-spawned thread right now
Hmm, you have a point there. They do sound a bit similar.
How about Hardhead? The hin wanted to name it Dawnblossom, but the dwarves adamantly refused. Said it was ridiculous. They bickered long enough that the rest of the kingdom decided they liked one young halfling's suggestion for a name :P
Actually this is a rather nice idea. I can't imagine the dwarves being anything but pleased at the name "Hardhead", and the hin might go with it too after what they have all been through.
Even if that's not the name we eventually use, it would seem a reasonable compromise to make a hin-sounding name with a dwarf-like meaning. So something like Hardhead, Tightbelt, Blackhammer, Goldforge, etc. Can anyone think of one with a meaning fitting to the community?
While on the subject of "Dawnblossom-Qvar", I've been thinking a bit about its role in the community of Wendar. It seems to me that despite the town's reputation for disease and mutation, the dwarves at least could provide some much needed services for the rest of the nation. Quality dwarven tools and metalworking might well be much in demand among the elves and humans of Wendar, and this town could be a very useful resource for them.
I'm not sure what the halflings could do, though. Perhaps they spend their time beautifying their little town, and the problems of the village are all hidden behind this veneer of idyllic gardens and pretty little cottages...?
Edit: This kind of constructive criticism of place names is extremely welcome! Please, don't hold back guys!
The new suggestions are at the end of each line. I'm going to keep track of each suggested name, so that we can see the stages of adapting them.
Aelythnar (fortress) > Aelthynar
Ammalanleth (elven village) > Amalleth
Dawnblossom-Qvar (dwarf & halfling village) > Dawnblossom Kavar > Hardhead
Duncan’s Keep (mixed village) > Duncanskeep
Laurianta (elven village) > Laurieth
Uumarne (mixed village) > Umarne
Tower of Anorion (ruined tower) > Tower of Andorien
In general, I think we should avoid overly long names, and difficult to pronounce names. Mystara tends to have relatively short names, and most of them are easily pronouncable.
Also, I want to avoid names recognisably taken from Tolkien.
Of course, located in the midst of the Dark Woods, with Idris' influence all around, this would not be a post to be assigned lightly. The keeper must be a very powerful, strong-minded elf, in order to stay safe from Idris' influence and not go insane.
Following along these lines, there could be many dark secrets related to the Tenth Shrine, and it could be a point of conflict between Idris' followers and the elves. What happens if the followers of Idris gain control? What effect does it have on the protection net? What powers does the shrine have, and can they be used for good, or only for evil?
Effectively, then, the Introduction is the basis for the whole Gazetteer. It might be useful for us to come up with some basic themes for Wendar, and refine them.
For example, just thinking about how to start the Introduction, it occurred to me that we still haven't settled on a theme for interactions between elves and humans. Given the nature of Wendar, I would probably put that information within the very first few lines of any Introduction.
So, I propose that before we get into the nitty gritty details, let's have a good discussion of principles and themes that we want in Wendar. This is also a good way to keep things in line with the official info, because it should be possible to derive some themes from that stuff too.
Tell me your themes!
Brethiliath – This village, located in the great deep forest south of Wendar City, is where an ancient elven relic is located, closely guarded by its keepers. The elves who live here prefer to have little to do with the outside world, and have focused on spiritual matters. In doing so, Brethiliath has become known among Wendarian elves as a place to go to learn about, and meditate on, the relationship between their race and nature, and the grand scheme of life. As a result, Brethiliath sees a fair amount of visitors - mainly elves, but also a handful of human sages interested in such matters.
I changed Geoff's original description to refer to an "ancient elven relic" rather than a "Tree of Life".
What if this relic is one of the original Genalleth relics, from the period before the Korrigans became Immortal and created the Nine Shrines and the Elvenstar?
I don't know exactly what this relic could be, but it could be very fun to create an ancient relic, probably related to Ordana. This would then make Brethiliath the centre of worship for Ordana in Wendar.
On the topic of the relationship between elves and humans, I have always thought that they were on good terms, even if the rotten apples are everywhere, so even in Wendar.
In particular since the elves tend to be a bit aloof (it's not something they do to offend others: they ARE like that because of their heritage) and have stressed so much the importance of the Korrigans and the Shrines and the Elvenstar over Wendar's history, many humans have grown with time feelings of resentment and envy. These humans are backed up by agents of Idris, obviously, who convinced them to create the Humans Rights Movement, to further the cause of humans over elves dominance (they feel the elves have the key positions inside Wendar no matter what).
I would say the humans are integrated in the elves' world (I'd consider Wendar an elven kingdom), but a minority resents the elves' influence and acts to create their own independent kingdom or city-state (I don't remember where I put them, but I believe they should be in the largest settlement far from major elven reserves... Oakwall?)
A very sound idea for Brethiliath, Thorf! Maybe they have preserved one of the leaves of the One Tree of Ordana, and it may retain some magical powers (minor ones), but essentially it should be a way of communing with Mother Forest.
After reading your histories of Idris, the Korrigans and Ordana, that was precisely what I had in mind. I would make it as powerful as any other clan relic, though, so that the clan in Brethiliath can use it as their clan relic. Also, this whole idea makes for another nice little secret for Wendar - and one that could lead to a very big secret, in discovering the fate of the original One Tree of Ordana.
On the topic of the relationship between elves and humans, I have always thought that they were on good terms, even if the rotten apples are everywhere, so even in Wendar.
Thanks, that helps me quite a bit on the human-elf relations theme. Basically we have an elven realm that has assimilated humans into its culture, to a large extent.
Oakwall does sound like the best option. The southwest seems to be the biggest area as far as humans are concerned.
That reminds me, we also need to work on descriptions for Wendar City (also need a map!), Oakwall, Woodgate and Sylvair, and eventually for the Nine Shrines too.
Since no one else seems to want to wade into this, I guess I'll have a go at starting this conversation...
The new suggestions are at the end of each line. I'm going to keep track of each suggested name, so that we can see the stages of adapting them.
These sound fine to me.
Geoff
I changed Geoff's original description to refer to an "ancient elven relic" rather than a "Tree of Life".
What if this relic is one of the original Genalleth relics, from the period before the Korrigans became Immortal and created the Nine Shrines and the Elvenstar?
I don't know exactly what this relic could be, but it could be very fun to create an ancient relic, probably related to Ordana. This would then make Brethiliath the centre of worship for Ordana in Wendar.
This works extremely well - go for it!
Geoff
Well, unless Ordana magically transported it to her own plane, the One Tree is now gone. It was in Evergrun, and Evegrun got destroyed when it became the new south pole and the Immortals had to punch through it to create a new permanent gate to the Hollow World, remember? ;)
But Marco, that's the boring answer! ;)
Seriously, it seems unlikely that she would allow such an investment of her power to be destroyed so easily. Something must have happened with it, whether it was Ordana or one of her enemies who took advantage of the confusion.
The point is, it could make a very interesting idea for a campaign goal or a long term quest, for the PCs to find out what happened to the One Tree. Precisely what did happen to it could be left up to individual DMs, but finding out would probably require time travel, research into the origins of the elves and their ancient history.
But Marco, that's the boring answer! ;)
Seriously, it seems unlikely that she would allow such an investment of her power to be destroyed so easily. Something must have happened with it, whether it was Ordana or one of her enemies who took advantage of the confusion.
The point is, it could make a very interesting idea for a campaign goal or a long term quest, for the PCs to find out what happened to the One Tree. Precisely what did happen to it could be left up to individual DMs, but finding out would probably require time travel, research into the origins of the elves and their ancient history.
Cool idea!
Here is the Tolkien explaination:
The Tree was eaten by a powerful dragon, or its powers drained by a demi-god spider who is still alive somewhere, but now with tremendous powers.
For game purposes, perhaps it would be more fun if the PCs somehow can restore the Tree though. Maybe an evil wizard has transported the tree to a demiplane where he still feeds upon its powers while terrorizing the elves of Vulcania....
BTW: I'm still thinking Grunland and Evergrun have been saved somewhere in the Hollow World, even though Ka's preservation project hadn't been started yet at that point....
Håvard
So, I propose that before we get into the nitty gritty details, let's have a good discussion of principles and themes that we want in Wendar. This is also a good way to keep things in line with the official info, because it should be possible to derive some themes from that stuff too.
I agree with the idea of an elven kingdom with an integrated human population. However, Wendar isn't Alfheim, and perhaps the "level" of human-elf integration could be different from area to area.
So I think that even among elves, lifestyle could differ: some clans inhabit the forests, in a more Alfheimish way; some elves inhabit cities (and run business and shops); even some other live in the plains, farming the land.
About 55-75% of the elves should IMO live in the forests.
Of course, the clans in the dense woods are the most reclusive among elves and those living in the deepest forests don't like to have much relations with humans (perhaps these are a sort of counterpart to the "Humans Rights Movement" ;) ).
The human population lives mostly in the plains and in the light woods. Most of them are farmers, shopkeepers (in the cities) and woodcutters (closely watched by the elves).
This way, one could find the more integrated communities in the plains and in the cities, while in the woods the elven population grows and the deep forests tend to be populated by elves only.
I'm thinking about the Introduction for the Wendar Gazetteer, and it occurs to me that actually it is a very important article. Whatever we put there defines the main themes for the whole of Wendar, which the rest of the Gazetteer then expands upon....
Tell me your themes!
Excellent point! When I think Wendar, I think of the same sorts of words that you'd see in ads for real estate in Colorado: idyllic, remote, secluded, rugged, scenic, pristine, tranquil, remote, serene, pure, etc.
Sure, it's an elven kingdom with a lot of humans integrated, but it isnot, in my opinion, just another elven kingdom. I would like to think that the Alfheim refugees feel at least as alien in Wendar as do its human inhabitants. To a human peasant, the elves of Wendar seem mysterious and beautiful, but there is a true kinship: the dirt on the collar and callous on the hand shows that these elves know what it is to dig in the earth for a living. To an Alfheimer, the elves of Wendar seem almost human, as if they have lived too long among humans.
The elves of Wendar feel a protective kinship with nature, but their understanding of the natural world differs from that of the archetypal druid: trees, deer, and bears, of course, but also stone, fire, and humans exist in nature, and can exist in balance. All of this, of course, is my opinion--I might be able to back up one or two of these statements with a little research, but it's mostly instinct.
Great question, Thorf!
Now I've got a question: We're talking about incorporating significant aspects of several immortals in Wendar:
The Korrigans (Sphere of Energy)
The Great One (Sphere of Matter)
Ordana (Sphere of Time)
Idris (Sphere of Entropy)
Am I the only one whose sense of symmetry is offended? The absence of Thought sticks out like a sore thumb, to me, as if we are saying that Wendar is utterly unthinking ;)
There are several valid opportunities to incorporate at least one immortal from the Sphere of Thought:
-Frey and/or Freyja seem like a natural fit, their following brought by Heldannic/Antalian humans.
-Odin could also work, and it certainly seems that Gylharen is a practicioner of wise rule.
-Tiresias fits what I see as the mood of Wendar....
-Ssu-Ma might be the best fit, representing the wealth of magic and knowledge that must be in the elves' keeping. He also helps emphasize the point that the elves have been here a long time. The problem, as I see it, is that we will naturally run into trouble deciding on how to describe the elves if they have, for millennia, followed all four of the non-entropic mortals represented in Wendar.
-Cretia, Noumena, or Korotiku could help bring forth the lighter side of the people of Wendar, who seem a very solemn lot.
Thoughts?
Edited 9/1/05: corrected "Energy" to "Entropy" for Idris--that's what I meant to say--Thanks, Thorf!
I agree with the idea of an elven kingdom with an integrated human population. However, Wendar isn't Alfheim, and perhaps the "level" of human-elf integration could be different from area to area.
Well said! You beat me to this point! As to your 55% to 75% of elves living in the woods, I'd agree to this sort of breakdown during the time period when 10% of the inhabitants are Alfheim refugees living in the woods. Prior to this, I would argue for a blend with more elves in the farmland, pastures, and cities.
This way, one could find the more integrated communities in the plains and in the cities, while in the woods the elven population grows and the deep forests tend to be populated by elves only.
Except for the deep forests that even the elves are afraid to enter, right? I would also tend to think that even the most isolationist of Wendar elves at least respect other peoples' contribution to the general welfare--I don't see quite the level of xenophobia among Wendar's elves as is found in Alfheim.
I do not think however it is necessary to have somebody from every sphere. It doesn't work like that . It is simply a matter of cultural development ;)
On the subject of how do the Wendarian elves behave.. well, I think you've got the points: they are more human than elves to Alfheim elves, but definitely not humans for the human purists. I think they dwell on the ground, and only occasionally build houses up the trees. After all, look at all other elvish civilizations: Sylvan Realm had stone cities and towers, Belcadiz have wooden and stone houses, as much as Callarii have.. the only exception seems to be Alfheim elves!
Personally, I'd make the Shiye different from them and living in tents and makeshift houses built with magic, but the Wendar elves should be divided among tree-dwellers and soil-dwellers IMO ;)
I haven't got much time now, but just a quick reply to tell you that Idris belongs to Entropy, and Thought is represented by Odin, Frey and Freyja.. Keep in mind that almost all meaningful aspects of life (for elves) are embodied by the Nine Korrigans, so there isn't much more to cover..
I do not think however it is necessary to have somebody from every sphere. It doesn't work like that . It is simply a matter of cultural development ;)
Thanks for catching my mistake re: Idris--my fingers got ahead of my brain, I think. I must've missed the point that Odin, Frey, and Freyja have a following... maybe we ought to give one or more of them a shrine/temple/monument/something on the map, too? I think Frey and Freyja fit wonderfully. Odin, I'm less sure about, but I don't have any objections to his having a presence.
As for whether there should be an immortal from the Sphere of Thought represented, I agree that it is not necessary, but it just seems out of kilter to have four of the five spheres represented. The thought initially came to me in thinking that the elves of Wendar seemed moreearthy, but since their primary patrons seem to be Ordana and/or the Korrigans, earthy seemed like the wrong adjective.
By the way, what is the relationship between the following of the Korrigans and that of Ordana? Is the Leaf of Life or whatever we call it a manifestation of Ordana's blessing? Or is it an artifact of Time more or less held hostage by the followers of The Korrigans (Sphere of Energy)? If we are to assign powers, I would think they should be more time-oriented: maybe a year's worth of its sap acts as a potion of longevity?
Just tossing out ideas to try to flesh this out a bit more
Thanks for catching my mistake re: Idris--my fingers got ahead of my brain, I think. I must've missed the point that Odin, Frey, and Freyja have a following... maybe we ought to give one or more of them a shrine/temple/monument/something on the map, too? I think Frey and Freyja fit wonderfully. Odin, I'm less sure about, but I don't have any objections to his having a presence.
I'm not so hot on marking any other Immortal's shrines on the map. I mean, I have no doubt they exist, it's just that I think they wouldn't be nearly as integral to Wendar as a whole compared to the shrines to the Nine Korrigans.
As for whether there should be an immortal from the Sphere of Thought represented, I agree that it is not necessary, but it just seems out of kilter to have four of the five spheres represented. The thought initially came to me in thinking that the elves of Wendar seemed moreearthy, but since their primary patrons seem to be Ordana and/or the Korrigans, earthy seemed like the wrong adjective.
I've really never thought about looking at pantheons from a Sphere perspective but I do so the value of it. A church's overall doctrine would be heavily influenced by the Spheres it's patriate Immortals belong to. As a simple example, a church with a majority of Immortals of the Sphere of Matter would be more likely to be very ordered and structured, traditional, and use earth in their rituals (such as burial for the dead). It's just a thought about tendencies. ;)
If we are to assign powers, I would think they should be more time-oriented: maybe a year's worth of its sap acts as a potion of longevity?
That is certainly an interesting possibilty but I'd think the elves wouldn't be overly enthused about extending their longevity. ;)
Odin embodies the Sky, Lightning, Wisdom and Knowledge, so it's paramount that he is the high lord of the humans living in Wendar. Not that they don't worship the Korrigans, but they prefer seeing them as subordinates of Odin (the elves obviously don't think so) ;)
Simply put, you cannot have only Frey and Freyja cults in an Antalian-descended group without having Odin too, because he's the Allfather for those people (it's like saying some civilization worships St Peter and St John without acknowledging Christ).
Odin embodies the Sky, Lightning, Wisdom and Knowledge, so it's paramount that he is the high lord of the humans living in Wendar. Not that they don't worship the Korrigans, but they prefer seeing them as subordinates of Odin (the elves obviously don't think so) ;)
I don't know...I guess it depends on what you'd do with the Aesir/Vanir issue. It is theoretically possible that the Vanir originally represented a different pantheon; perhaps even an elven one. It might actually fit quite well with Mystara now that I think of it...
Håvard
First off, per PWA3 (and, I think, the other two, though I don't have them handy), the Wendarian Range is a Basalt mountain range. This means, among other things, that it is volcanic. This leads me to the theory that, at some point within the past hundred thousand years or so, major volcanic activity in the Wendarian Range (possibly also in the Mengul) caused enormous lava flows across what is now the Wendarian Plain. While this is fairly incompatible with significant habitation at the same time, it does provide us with a basis for some of the observed characteristics of Wendar: 1) it is a largely flat area surrounded by very rugged terrain; 2) we do not see major evidence of landscape changes due to erosion; and 3) there does not seem to be substantial amounts of groundwater present in Wendar.
If the Wendarian Plain consists of sedimentary rock capped by a thin layer of basalt flowstone, it would help explain why the soil is highly permeable, that is, that water tends to seep into the ground rather than pooling on the surface. Extending this by comparison to the geography of Northern Arizona (a landscape with a basalt-capped sedimentary substructure), small streams and lakes should be abundant with springtime snowmelt, but the moisture should quickly percolate through, leaving the surface relatively dry in all but the wettest summers. Volcanic topsoil tends to be highly fertile, which would help explain the vast forests and at least some farming activity. Perhaps most importantly, this helps explain why Wendar can be so remarkably smooth when it is surrounded by such rugged terrain. However, this also brings up a couple valid questions.
1) Where does the water go? I would hypothesize that the volcanic layer is relatively thin, and that much of the snowmelt and rainfall in Wendar stays, at least temporarily in the local aquifer, meaning that if you dig a well anywhere in Wendar, you have a fantastic chance of finding water. Eventually it needs to go somewhere. I propose that some flows underground to join the Naga River as it flows into the Heldannic Territories. Some, presumably, would also help water the marshes of the Great Northern Wildlands. Finally, some would run beneath the Adri Varma and help water Lake Hast and the oases/salt marsh of Sind.
2) Why is the surface fertile, if it consists of a basalt toplayer? I put forth glaciation as the answer. We know that much of this part of the world was covered in ice relatively recently (in geological terms, at least). Extensive glacial activity would have ground the top portions of the basalt cap into loose gravel and soil. If this is the case, we would expect small glacial hills to dot the landscape (check out http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/glacial_systems/landforms_of_continental_glaciation_p2.html for a look at some exaples of glacial landforms). I think these gentle hills are in keeping with Wendar's character, and seem very appropriate for much of the landscape.
Based on these observances, I think it is worthwhile to consider Wendar to be a volcanic plain, with the northern extent of the volcanic topsoil marked by the badlands to the north. Water features should be few and largely transient in nature, although substantial amounts of subterranean water help sustain plant life.
To return to the idea of the Wendarian Range as a glaciated basalt range, this would make them a very daunting set of mountains to get through. Fantastic pictures of some real world basalt ranges with significant glacial activity can be found at http://doors.stanford.edu/~sr/ansel-adams-2003/index.html#37.html if you are interested. While the Wendarian Range would be very challenging to navigate, it seems to me that challenges are made to be met...
The pockets of forested hills to the south of Hollsvatn on Thorf's map seem like they are begging for an explanation as to why they are included within Wendar's borders. I propose that these represent the ancient Elven Stair, the secret paths once used for what little commerce passed between the elves of Wendar/Denagoth/Northern Wildlands and those of the Highlands (now Glantri). My suggestion is this secret (lost?) path begins with the Stair in Wendar, winds through a pass eastward into forested hills in Glantri, continues to an even longer pass southeastward to yet another set of forested hills, then passes through these hills to another pass, the highest yet, southward into Boldavia near Pavlova. I'm not sure just what sort of adventures one would run into along the way (I tend to think, though, that if anywhere in Wendar seems right for Avariel or Ee'aar, the Elven Stair would be the spot), but there are definitely tons of possibilities. Perhaps one portion of the path leads for miles through an old lava tube, now filled with ice year-round. Of course, it seems likely that no one would try this route unless they had need to carry a message quickly from Bensarian to Glantri without alerting the Knights, the Ethengar, or the Master of Hule... hmmm :D
What do you think?
This is still a rugged land but the shallow, broad valleys would make good farmland (if it isn't a marsh or bog). I'm thinking that Wendar doesn't recieve a great deal of rain through the summer; the ground is hydrated by runoff from the mountains and the wet northern wildlands (assuming that area would be a slightly higher altitude). However, the heavy winter snows would saturate the ground making for terrible travelling conditions in the spring (as far as roads are concerned).
That would also mean the ground waters would have to disperse via the Naga River and (to an even greater extent, IMHO) Lake Hast, Lake Amsorak, the Streel River system, and the salt marsh of Sind. This combines with the precipitation of all the area's mountains and the Adri Varma plateau.
I'm trying to find where I saw a map that showed the prevailing winds. Does this exist? I could of swore I've seen it. The reason I was looking for it is to confirm that winds from the Sea of Dread could blow across the Great Waste and release their moisture on Adri Varma and Kurish Massif in summer.
Anyway, I really like your suggestions, Patrick.
I think this is an excellent explanation. In organising my thoughts on the Northern Wildlands, perhaps the great swamp (the Moors of Chyras - sp?) that dominates much of the southern portion is in fact the remnant of the great glacial lake. In ages past, the Muil River, a river fed by springs on the Adri Varma Plateau, and greatly swelled by glacial runoff, carved a path through the land, and found a large depression, which it began to fill along with many other glacial rivers - creating a lake. Over the following thousands of years, the waters receded, and the lake turned into a vast boggy mess at it began to silt over. Most of the river dried up, too, as the glaciers retreated, but some - like the vastly reduced Muil and its tributaries - remain. On its own, the Muil river system might not be enough to maintain the swamp, so the idea that a great deal of water exists under the porous soil could ensure that the swamps remain.
Geoff
the idea that a great deal of water exists under the porous soil could ensure that the swamps remain.
Now my knowlegde of geology/geography is fairly limited but given the basalt and earlier volcanic activity,could there be some geysers?
Regards,
Gary
Good thinking, Patrick. A thought I had while reading your post was that it may have been possible that with the rapid glacial retreat following the GRoF, the Wendarian plain was saturated with water faster than could be drained through the ground. This would have created a flood lake for a peroid of time giving the ground some sedimentation. This would have only lasted for a moment in geological time, but may have increased the fertility of the plain.
Excellent point! I hadn't really thought about it, but you are absolutely right: it would have been difficult for all this meltwater to escape. A large lake would have been very likely to have formed, at least for a while: the Great Lakes of North America are such glacial remains. I think it probably makes sense to argue that the land slopes very gradually northward, so most of what water remains has flowed off to the north. Sedimentation, then, would have been relatively brief, but enough to add considerable nutrients to the water.
This is still a rugged land but the shallow, broad valleys would make good farmland (if it isn't a marsh or bog). I'm thinking that Wendar doesn't recieve a great deal of rain through the summer; the ground is hydrated by runoff from the mountains and the wet northern wildlands (assuming that area would be a slightly higher altitude). However, the heavy winter snows would saturate the ground making for terrible travelling conditions in the spring (as far as roads are concerned).
That would also mean the ground waters would have to disperse via the Naga River and (to an even greater extent, IMHO) Lake Hast, Lake Amsorak, the Streel River system, and the salt marsh of Sind. This combines with the precipitation of all the area's mountains and the Adri Varma plateau.
I'm trying to find where I saw a map that showed the prevailing winds. Does this exist? I could of swore I've seen it. The reason I was looking for it is to confirm that winds from the Sea of Dread could blow across the Great Waste and release their moisture on Adri Varma and Kurish Massif in summer.
Anyway, I really like your suggestions, Patrick.
Well, thanks! I think I've seen such a map too... maybe in DotE or Top Ballista? I don't have either handy today. At any rate, CoM states that Sind has a southerly monsoonal flow in the summer and a dry northerly wind off the Adri Varma in the winter.
Looking at a map of the region and imagining Earth's weather patterns, it is rather difficult to imagine that either the Adri Varma or Wendar getting a lot of precipitation one way or another. I would speculate that Wendar receives periodic light rainfall from the Midlands during the warmer months, but most storms unleash their fury on the Mengul and Wendarian Ranges. The Northern Adri Varma would be likely to receive similar weather, while its southern edge would have violent summer thunderstorms. In the winter, blizzards from the north would give at least some snowfall to both areas, although I think these are sheltered enough areas that I don't think we should consider them high snowfall.
I do not think that Wendar would naturally be a particularly wet region. The same is true, however, of the Canolbarth, which was once a vast tangle of scrub oak. Perhaps yet another aspect of the Korrigans' blessing is that the fierce winter storms are muted and their precipitation is spread through the year. On the other hand, this does seem more like the realm of the Sphere of Thought, and priestly intervention with Odin, Frey, and/or Freyja could provide a very compelling explanation for why humans have a place in this drying-out landscape :D
I think this is an excellent explanation. In organising my thoughts on the Northern Wildlands, perhaps the great swamp (the Moors of Chyras - sp?) that dominates much of the southern portion is in fact the remnant of the great glacial lake. In ages past, the Muil River, a river fed by springs on the Adri Varma Plateau, and greatly swelled by glacial runoff, carved a path through the land, and found a large depression, which it began to fill along with many other glacial rivers - creating a lake. Over the following thousands of years, the waters receded, and the lake turned into a vast boggy mess at it began to silt over. Most of the river dried up, too, as the glaciers retreated, but some - like the vastly reduced Muil and its tributaries - remain. On its own, the Muil river system might not be enough to maintain the swamp, so the idea that a great deal of water exists under the porous soil could ensure that the swamps remain.
Geoff
Absolutely! I think that works perfectly! More than likely, there would still be at least a few areas of deeper water mixed in among the marsh. I'm not sure--is there an outlet, eventually, from this marsh? Or is it boxed in? If the water does not flow out, it would be a salt marsh, as significant evaporation would be taking place. Of course, even if there is an outlet, the marsh would likely have a relatively high salinity. Presumably the frogmen like that sort of thing ;)
Now my knowlegde of geology/geography is fairly limited but given the basalt and earlier volcanic activity,could there be some geysers?
Regards,
Gary
I don't know a lot about geysers, but my understanding is that they are more associated with granite-extrusive volcanoes than with basalt. Of course, nowhere on earth (and, presumably, nowhere in Mystara) do we see one type of rock to the absolute exclusion of others, so I don't see any reason why there should not be at least a handful of geysers in Wendar. I think they would be most likely to occur in the foothills of the Wendarian Range. Other reasonable locations might be near the base of the Adri Varma, in the Mengul foothills, or at the badlands north of Wendar marking the beginning of the moors and the end of the proposed lava flow.
In the winter, blizzards from the north would give at least some snowfall to both areas, although I think these are sheltered enough areas that I don't think we should consider them high snowfall.
I do not think that Wendar would naturally be a particularly wet region.
It is from the PWAs that I got the heavy snowfall in winter comment. That's why I was trying to figure out how winter would be Wendar's rather heavy wet-season. ;) I certainly agree that Wendar shouldn't get much rain in the summer dry months.
1. There are roads connecting woodgate, Oakwall and Sylvair and these all link at one point. Economically I imagine that a good size village or maybe even a town would grow at that point.
2. The mini gaz is great but there are a few 'east's and 'west's the wrong way round. At least there are on the Pandius version. Is there a more recent one?
3. Given the depth of Wendar material here might it be worth using the standard breakdown of Gaz chapters to file things away. Thus far the geography section is very well fleshed out (understandably) but other sections to consider include...
What everyone knows about Wendar (probably written last)
History (a pruned version of Marco's timeline maybe?)
People (inc NPCs)
Society, laws etc.
Adventure suggestions
Thoughts?
Cheers,
Col.