I’ve compiled all the articles that I managed to save into one big document. I sorted through them and seperated them based loosely on their content. Some articles may be duplicated, as I haven’t had time to make sure there is no duplication. I was going to do a bit more "cleaning" but, due to the time constraints I haven’t had time to do so. Please remember this is just a rough compilation to help us choose a direction to take with the MOrient project. I would also like all authors who find their work in this compilation to let me know, as I would like to give you credit for your contributions in any further revisions. I regret that I didn’t save everyone’s signatures when I was saving the articles. There is a short "questionaire" to fill out below, as well as the whole of the compiled material. Please only send me back the filled out form and your comments and anything you feel I have left out.

Religious/Immortal/Philosophical Aspects <Pg. 6 - 11>

The Immortal Rohindartha

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

The "deanimation" ability of Rohindartha's clerics

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

Intelligent undead with regard to Rohindartha's clerics

( if deanimation is used )

ALLOW CALMING [ ] ONLY DEANIMATE [ ]

Fairies/Seelie court as MChinese pantheon of "Gods" ( Celestial Court )

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

"Super-race" incarnating into important MChinese figures

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

The Barbarians of MOrient <Pg. 12 - 14>

Gabriele's excellent discourses on them

( I strongly suggest we use this one )

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

The "Hairy Red Thing"

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Jennite Horsemen barbarians from Steppes of Jen

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Nature of MOriental Dragons <Pg. 15 - 22>

(Pick one)

Regular Mystaran Dragons as emperors of MChina [ ]

More traditional oriental Dragons as emperors of MChina [ ]

Whole of MChina as being a Dragon [ ]

MOriental Dragon Riders

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Half-Dragon offspring of emperor

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

Dragon blood required for MChinese nobility

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

Dragon-kin riders

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MChina's emperor is SUPPOSED to be a dragon, but no-one knows

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

Nation of MChina <Pg. 23 - 28>

It's name (pick one)

Empire of the Great Khan [ ]

Great Empire [ ]

Empire of the Great One [ ]

(correct my errors here)

Chung-Kuo(Middle Kingdom) [ ]

Shen-Cho(Continent of God) [ ]

Chung-Eun(Central Prime) [ ]

A Great Wall or alternative lengthy barrier

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

More magical power than Alphatia

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Land of Luxury with war under ground

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National philosophy of dealing with foreign problems by avoidance

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It's location (pick one)

All of Area 10 from the Master's map [ ]

Eastern half of Area 10 [ ]

South-eastern corner of Area 10 [ ]

Land locked in Central Skothar [ ]

North & West shores of Tangor bay [ ]

Other (Please explain) [ ]

Nature of MChinese Great Wall ( if used ) <Pg. 29 - 30>

(Pick one or more)

Regular wall [ ]

Underground wall [ ]

Giant Chasm [ ]

Fire/ice, lightning or mind-affecting wall [ ]

Large area of Darkness [ ]

Nation Of MJapan <Pg. 31 - 33>

The nation itself

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

It's name (pick one)

Jiku Shiru [ ]

Just plain Zyxl [ ]

Other(specify) [ ]

Location

Island of Zyxl [ ]

Other(specify) [ ]

Founded by refugees from MChina

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The island being formed out of a Dragon body

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The "Hero & (MChinese)Emperor" story as MJapanese history

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A matriarchal MJapan ( I REALLY like this idea too.. )

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Nation Of MMyanmar <Pg. 34 - 35>

( Only one idea was presented, so... )

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Nation Of MTibet <Pg. 36 - 38>

The nation itself

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Location(pick one)

Nentsun Plateau region [ ]

Other(specify) [ ]

General Ideas regarding Skothar <Pg. 36 - 38>

MInuit or MSiberian culture on Nentsun peninsula (Quarik city too.. )

USE [ ] NOT USE [ ]

Thonia inhabitted by people with bits of Blackmoor tech. (pick one)

Somewhat civilised [ ]

Very barbaric [ ]

NOT USE [ ]

Nentsun Plateau harbouring MTibet/MShangri-La hidden by hostile humanoids

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Jennite Sword inhabitted by hositle humanoids

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Minean coast inhabitted by pirates & modeled after SE Asia

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Tangor with an MEthiopian culture

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MIndochina south and southwest of Tangor bay

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Name: Rohindartha

Aka: The Enlightened One

Sphere: Thought

Alignment: Neutral (of neutral-good in AD&D)

Immortal Rank: Eternal

Immortal Level: 29

Abilities: Str- 42 Int- 45 Wis- 68 Dex- 44 Con- 47 Cha- 40

Permanent Power: 9,500

Saving Throws: Spell Attacks- 7, Physical Attacks-3, Mental Attacks- 6,

Power Attacks- 5

AC: -21, THAC0: *6 (misses only on natural 1, add 6 to damage roll)

Hit Dice: 43

Hit Points: 700, # Attacks: 4, Punch Damage: 4d6 Anti-magic: 80%

Special Abilities: Aura- affects up to 23 mortals (vampires, dragons, etc.

ARE affected)with terror, paralysis, or charm.

Magic- Any clerical, magical, or druidic spell any number of times per day, +

immortal magic.

Regeneration- 1d4 hp per day if active, 1d8 per day at rest

Communication with any living being, all air-related non-living things

Rapid travel, special defense against non-magical weapons and poison, protection from magic, infravision, creation of any items, and about anything else that you can think of.

Description: Rohindartha is rather small for an immortal, though he’s a little over average human size. He has black hair and brown eyes, and varies his appearance subtly to match those he is dealing with. Personality: Rohindartha was a Prince of some distant civilization (Sind, shortly after its peak). His worship has disappeared from that country, but was brought to the Orient by missionaries centuries ago. He gave up everything he had to seek the *Middle Path*, not succumbing to the temptation of luxury, yet also avoiding the extreme tortures of self-deprivation in seeking enlightenment. He was an epic hero who ventured far and wide in search of enlightenment. There are many vague stories about his life, though none are very specific. His patron was Alphatia, and he has remained on good terms with her and Koryis, whose interests he shares. One of his long term goals was to civilize the Minaeans so that the areas where he was worshipped could trade and interact freely with the Alphatians, but that goal may fade with the disappearance of Alphatia. He is dedicated to raising mortals up above the suffering of mortal life through enlightenment. He detests all undead as trapping a spirit indefinitely in the realm of suffering. Rohindartha is dedicated to bringing goodness through extreme nonviolence (except towards undead), but, because laws so frequently interfere with genuine goodness and he feels no tie to any law but goodness, his alignment is given as neutral. Rahindartha does not believe that he is fully enlightened, and is one of the few immortals actively seeking the secret of the Old Ones, although he is only an Eternal. He and Khoronus are friends and research partners. Rohindartha considers every immortal of the sphere of entropy to be his personal enemy, with the notable exception of Hel, whose enmity is merely professional in nature. Rohindartha’s nature is one of absolute goodness and pacifism.

Philosophy: Rohindartha’s followers are divided into two major denominations. The Elders’ Path is a "monotheistic" philosophy which is devoted to the quest for enlightenment through following the way of the Enlightened One; it demands a more active role on the part of believers, and stresses extreme tolerance and pacifism. The Greater Path is the philosophy in which adherents believe that they are helped along the way to enlightenment by those who have already become enlightened (including several other immortals, some immortals sponsored by Rohindartha, several titans, and a number of heroes of the past or simply fictional ones); this is a slightly less spiritual, less austere philosophy which is better suited to normal life. Both philosophies stress pacifism, goodness, respect for elders, and most of all, the quest for enlightenment. Many orders of Mystics follow Rohindara, along with the clerics. His clerics are made up mainly of monks, though nuns and gurus also exist. They devote their lives to doing good and seeking enlightenment. Clerics receive "Deanimate" rather than "Animate Dead". This spell alters an undead to it’s state before animation, thus freeing the spirit from the undead. This only works on monsters animated by a spell. Clerics may wear no armor, although they can use a shield and their increased presence of mind gives them a -3 bonus on armor class, plus an additional -1 bonus every 4 levels after first. Rohindara’s clerics radiate such an aura of peace that living creatures are less likely to attack them (+1 or +2 bonus on initial reaction rolls, or such), unless the creature recognizes the cleric as a personal enemy. DMs should award experience for monsters that the clerics avoid fighting, as well as role-laying bonuses for pacifism if they are deserved.

This is my basic idea for a major religion of the Orient. Please reply with your impressions of it. Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>I was talking about Chinese belief that important people are incarnation >of minor god, etc. In game term, that would mean immortal will directly >involves in mortal realm.

Not necessarily. Immortals have 3 distinct forms, as given in Wrath of the Immortals. The Manifestation form is their awesome form in which they have so many powers that they are effectively invincible against mortals. The immortal’s law states simply that an immortal is forbidden to appear in manifestation form on the prime plane. They are allowed to appear in incorporeal form (appearing in dreams, etc.) or in a Mortal Identity. An immortal is allowed to take on human (or other mortal) form on the prime plane in order to further his or her objectives. A glance at recent Mystaran history shows two obvious examples: Etienne d’Ambreville, prince of Glantri and the immortal Rad, and Anya, former chief advisor and mistress of Emperor Thincol I and the immortal Vanya. The incarnations of emperors could be true immortals without violating the Law. I point this out only for clarification; I do not necessarily disagree with the idea of a superrace.

>Also, he should probably be bald. True

>follower of his will be pacifist to the extreme. They >will not allow to kill anything unless it is extremely >evil and have no chance of redemption. This applies to >all animals and probably intelligent plants. As for >undeads, the mindless type (zombie, skeletons, etc.) are >no different then moving tables, and can be destroyed >without penalties. Buddhist don’t care much about the >body, believing only the soul is important. As for the >intelligent undeads, I’m not sure what their view is. I >can’t really see them just run up and kill those creatures, >especially those that are not totally evil. They probably >will attempt to reason with those undeads first, get them >to see that holding on to life this way is wrong, and get >them to give up their undead statue willingly. So perhaps >they will have the power of calm intelligent undead down >and get the undeads listen to them, and if the power is >successfully used, the undead need to make a saving throw, >or "dissipate." Undead that is pawn of other undead should >regain its free will at during the time of conversation.

You’re completely right regarding the baldness, it just slipped my mind somehow. As for the rest, it is pretty much exactly in the same vein as what I had in m>BTW, this will not be the religion of the mass for MChina.

>It will fit nicely for one of the more advanced culture that >neighboring MChina that I was thinking about. Due to the >religious beliefs, they are contented to stay in their own >little kingdom and advance their various art to a very high >degree. In historic setting this nation will be located in >the mountains between India and China, where the mountain >help out its small army in defending the nation a bit. but >since I don’t have any map with me, I’m not sure where would >be a good place for this nation.

I agree that this should not be the primary philosophy of MChina. The MTibet/Nepal/Bhutan(?) that you seem to be describing is an excellent idea, although it seems that it would be quite a bit of work to create a new MIndia when Sind is already there. This philosophy would probably also be followed in the jungle south of MChina (MBurma and MThailand)

>I can’t comment on the stats etc., as I’m not familiar

>with Immortals rules. He does seem to have rather impressive powers though;

>too impressive? Also, I’m not sure that I see the rationale for the link to >undead, specifically the emphasis on "de-animating" and releasing the spirit >. Wouldn’t this be that spirit’s karma?

The Immortal Law at the beginning of this post was designed specifically to balance these powers. I never went into Mortal Identities because it seems rather premature. The idea presented in Wrath of the Immortals is that a weak immortal is far more powerful than any mortal. They should not be used simply as monsters, but more as all-powerful NPCs, according to the rules set forth there. If anyone who is familiar with the rules for immortals could reply, I would appreciate input on whether Rohindartha should be about at Eternal level where I placed him, or should he be less powerful? As for the undead stuff, I was unsure about it myself. John seemed to back up the original description, while Shelby disagreed. I would appreciate further input regarding the issue of undead in MBuddhism.

BTW, I forgot to include this description in the original description:

Rohin means "on the upward path" in Sindhi, and -dartha was simply added to be reminiscent of Siddartha. Thanks to those who took the time to respond. I appreciate it, even if I disagreed with parts of your posts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sigh... I was hoping we don’t have to get into religion of Chinese or MChinese for a while, but since someone brought it up, I going to make a few comments. Chinese religion is VERY confusing. Most people are just not that religious. Even the religious type (monk, priest, etc.), are different from their western counterpart that they are more interested in seeking self "enlightenment" instead of converting others. The "religion" that the general population follow is a mix of Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and the folk tales all rolled into one. And the attitude toward religion is very different from the Westerner’s point of view. I’m not even sure where to start on this subject area. Should I start thinking of creating a MChinese’s pantheons of Immortals? That might take a while. Also, could the "Immortal Law" be different for MOrient than those applied to the Known World. As I said before, Chinese belief that many special people in its history are incarnation of heavenly creature/minor god etc. One way to incorporate that in the Mystara campaign is that they are immortals reborn into mortal form, with their immortal memory wiped. Upon their death, their will take their place in the Immortal rank again.

The Immortal Patrick described are fairly good. I just have a couple of points to make. Instead of coming from Sind, why not MIndia? Also, he should probably be bald. True follower of his will be pacifist to the extreme. They will not allow to kill anything unless it is extremely evil and have no chance of redemption. This applies to all animals and probably intelligent plants. As for undeads, the mindless type (zombie, skeletons, etc.) are no different then moving tables, and can be destroyed without penalties. Buddhist don’t care much about the body, believing only the soul is important. As for the intelligent undeads, I’m not sure what their view is. I can’t really see them just run up and kill those creatures, especially those that are not totally evil. They probably will attempt to reason with those undeads first, get them to see that holding on to life this way is wrong, and get them to give up their undead statue willingly. So perhaps they will have the power of calm intelligent undead down and get the undeads listen to them, and if the power is successfully used, the undead need to make a saving throw, or "dissipate." Undead that is pawn of other undead should regain its free will at during the time of conversation.

BTW, this will not be the religion of the mass for MChina. It will fit nicely for one of the more advanced culture that neighboring MChina that I was thinking about. Due to the religious beliefs, they are contented to stay in their own little kingdom and advance their various art to a very high degree. In historic setting this nation will be located in the mountains between India and China, where the mountain help out its small army in defending the nation a bit. but since I don’t have any map with me, I’m not sure where would be a good place for this nation.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

· > So one way of getting around this that I thought of is using

· > the seelie court. For some reason the fairies in MChina is more

· interested in

· > the welfare of the mortals than their western counterparts

· Hi John,

· I knew there were "spirits" in Chinese folklore, but are you choosing to

· adopt the terminology of Celtic fairy? Aren’t there labels more suited to

· the orient?

I’m thinking of keeping them separate. The seelie/celestial court is filled by the powerful fairies, nearly immortal in power. While the spirits have considerably less power. Actually come to think of it, this might work out quite similar to Chinese mythology. A little background info first, the spirits are come to being when those nature animals or plants start on the "path." How they able to start was never clearly described, AFAIK, probably they just happen to live in a highly magical area for a long time. After 50 to 100 years or so, they can take on human form. If they stay on the right path, they can sooner or later (generally several hundreds or thousands of years) became a god. If they stray on to the wrong path, they will be condemned by the heaven and be destroyed. In game term, this could be that minor spirits, after gaining certain amount of power could be invited into the celestial court. Powerful magic user could also became a god. this could be using a spell similar to Lich, but instead of turned into an undead, the caster is turned into a powerful fairy and join the court. BTW, in Chinese folk belief, gods is not all powerful. They are below buddas in power. And while godhood can sometime be obtained by just eating some alchemy formulas, one can became a budda only through total devotion, selfless sacrifice, etc. Also, IIRC, a god is not out of the "great cycle," meaning that after a certain amount of time they have to start at the beginning and be a mortal again. And once became a god, one can never became a budda. So, I think in game term, Immortals = budda and Powerful fairy = god. Just my opinion. As I said before, the main reason I like this is there are just too many gods in Chinese folk stories to create an immortal out of each one. Hum, looking back at my post, it might be a little confusing. Feel free to ask me any questions to clarify anything or tell me what you think of this.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shelby Michlin pontificated:

>

· This is pretty fascinating stuff for a Westerner, or at least for this one.

· What do you think of the Oriental pantheons in Deities and Demigods/Legends

· and Lore etc.? Where does that (polytheism) fit into the milieu of Buddhism,

· Confucianism, Taoism and folk tales?

I only flip through L&L once, and don’t remember much about it. Polytheism is what the commoners "believes". Most people don’t know whether a "god" came from Buddhism, Taoism, or somewhere else, nor do they really care.

· What’s the "Immortal Law" you refer to above?

I was talking about Chinese belief that important people are incarnation of minor god, etc. In game term, that would mean immortal will directly involves in mortal realm. However, something I just thought up is that those people were incarnation of an old secret race of ... whatever. This race are very interested in welfare of MChina, but do not want to directly involved. So, they take form of human and work themselves into important position when MChina is in trouble. They could do this by either polymorph into human and make up their childhood history when they first met someone(most of those people have a very humble beginning, which would not be difficult to fabricate, especially if the superace have some mind altering power). Or maybe they can "plant" themselves into a woman’s womb and came into human’s world that way. I like the idea of a super-race instead of minor immortals so we don’t have to spend time creating a whole new pantheon. The major gods could just be the same immortals that have already been published, just took a different name when in MChina, with a few addition immortal that is MChina specific.

· In an earlier post you mentioned that the older, original Great Wall is in

· fact a mound, while the stone wall people picture was only built within the

· past few hundred years. Are you saying that the original Great Wall was

· built as a mound, or that all that remains of it is a mound?

Sorry, I don’t really know.

· Thank you again, I think your contributions are a terrific opportunity to

· get Oriental cultures "right."

Just doing what I can. BTW, I left Taiwan before I even finished elementary school, so by no mean I’m an authority on China. So if someone found different info on what I described, feel free to correct me.

· PS How do we refer to you politely, as Shin, as Yu, or something else?

Just call me John :) While we at it, we can go a little into Chinese names. In China, family names is generally placed first and generally are only one word (each word is one syllable in Chinese), although there are some two word last names too, and they seems to be more common in the past. Longer last name can also be heard once a while, but generally mean the family come from outer region of China, such as Mongol, Manchuria, etc., and they sometime shorten their family name once they integrated into Chinese society. Given name are generally one or two word. Traditionally, there are many families that have strict restrictions on Given Names. For example, the first word of all children from the same generation needs to be the same word, and the second words need to have some shared characteristic. Like they all have to be related to water etc. and those rules is kept in the family shrine that is located at the family’s place of ancestry. Using my name as example, in Chinese it is Yu Shin Chyang. Yu is my family name, both of my sisters have Shin as the first of the given name. Our family book is back in China, so we didn’t follow the strict family rule on naming. All cousin with same last name (i.e., children of you father’s brother) also consider to be in the same generation and should have same first word for the given name. BTW, these rules are generally followed by more educated families, or middle class or better. When your first worry is earn enough money to survive, you tend to not worry about names as much. Traditionally, boys from educated family often have a personal names too, which is used among close friend. Commoners name is generally much simpler. A street vendor generally have names like Wong Six (for been the sixth children of the family) or Tang Big (for been the first born, or just a big guy), etc. Adventurers generally like to carry some nice sounding nicknames that Timely Rain for someone like to help out other, White Serpent in the Wave for someone who is a good swimmer and have fair skin, etc. Sorry for talk so much on fluffs, I’ll try to cut down a bit in the future.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

One common motif in Chinese mythology is the Celestial Court, which is similar to the Mt. Olympus of the Greek myth that it is a gathering of the Chinese gods. However, since the number of Chinese gods could easily be in the hundreds if not thousands, it would be difficult in my opinion to create that many immortals. So one way of getting around this that I thought of is using the seelie court. For some reason the fairies in MChina is more interested in the welfare of the mortals than their western counterparts. So they have been "helping out" quite a bit over the history of MChina. So the commoner mistaken some of the more powerful good folks to be immortals and start to warship them. The clerics in MChina know that is not the case, but the idea is too deep rooted for them to bother to change it. The famous people that are believed to incarnation of gods could just be changelings or actual fairy spirit incarnated into human baby for one life time, probably either as a punishment or the seelie court like to get something done that a normal human can’t be trusted. So, this is the gist of my idea, what do people think about it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, here are some general ideas, if you have something to add or you don't like something, let me know soon, before I start writing:

Human barbarians are Mongol-like, great horsemen and really good with bow and arrows (I'll get some ideas from the GAZ about Ethengar).

For half-ogre and others humanoid barbarians, I'm going to get many ideas from a tribe who really threatened China (I don't know their English name, in Italian is 'Unni', they are the ones who later came in Europe), and from others Germanic tribes describes by Tacitus (OK, that's not historically accurate, but I feel it's better like that...).

Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it

PS Should barbarians have magic users?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Hello again,

Perhaps 'Unni' is 'Hun?'

As far as barbarians, I would recommend shamans and witch-doctors, rather

than full magic-users.

Shelby Michlin

----------------------------------------------------------------

There are really hundreds of horse-barbarian cultures that have come out

of central Asia ... we should all look for details (either historically

inspired or totally original) to give to these cultures to make them

unique and not just Ethengar East.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, I'm still working on barbarians for MChina.

Here are more infos about humanoid barbarians (see also my earlier messages):

There are many different tribal groups;

Most common humanoids are goblins, trolls, kobolds and hobgoblins. Those tribes are slaves of other more developed humanoid-civilizations (Ogre-magi, half-orc, half-ogre, rakasta) who could be really dangerous for MChina, if they were united by a strong leader. By now they haven't a common leader, so they use only 50% of they military power for attack MChina, but maybe in future....;

I imagine this barbarians like those who threatened (and eventually destroyed) the Roman Empire. They are nomads, they travel in caravans and they've never founded a settlement bigger than a village. Even their villages are frequently abandoned because they aren't good in agriculture (they think that agriculture is inferior and let only captured humans practice it) and, so, they don't get enough food from the land. In fact they prefer hunting animals or attacking isolated villages to get food, hardware and even slaves. Many tribes have some sheep, yaks and horses.;

Each tribe is composed by 15/50 members (males and females), plus about 3 slaves for every important member (there are 3/10 important members in every tribe).

Social and political influence is often hereditary or is also gained with experience and age.;

About 5 tribes together form a horde. Those 5 tribes are formed by slaves-humanoids (goblins, trolls, kobolds or hobgoblins). Please note that there often is a slave-humanoid race who is dominant between the other slave-races in the horde. Humanoids who belong to other races than the dominant one are often killed during skirmishes caused by racial hate. Every horde is ruled by a another group of humanoids who is superior for intellect, strength or magic (ogre-magi, half-orc, half-ogre or rakasta). The ruling humanoids may not belong all at the same race. The ruling group's uncooperative and evil tendencies don't let the hordes cooperate unless their survival itself is in danger. The rulers think of their slaves as animals; they don't hesitate to kill them if they want to rebel (they remind what happened centuries ago, when a slave-rebellion and a MChinese offensive put in serious danger their ancestors' lives).;

Slave-humanoids wear animal furs, and in war, they put grass and leaves on them to increase stealth, and draw symbols on their faces and bodies to incite fear. Note that some furs (especially the ones from yaks) offer the same protection of a leather armour. Sometimes they have wooden shields decorated with paintings of animals or geometrical patterns. Slave-races can make some primitive weapons like bows, staffs, maces; but they can also have some rusty short swords or daggers stolen in their raids (if they are lucky enough to hide them, because robbery is frequent even in the horde). Ruling-humanoids instead have steel weapons stolen in the raids (note that barbarians don't know how to make them) or, at least, some very well made, very beautiful, and maybe even enchanted by a shaman, primitive weapon. They often have artistic wooden shields and leather armours (sometimes they put some wood or bronze on them, gaining a -1 / -2 AC and +5/10 Kg weight). The most important and the richest leaders wear a bronze, gold and silver plated, helmet.

When they travel, they rides horses, but they aren't so good like humans barbarians (I'll speak about them in a later message). When they stop, slaves have no tents at all or, if it's really cold and windy, they uses a small wooden wall to stop the wind and old, ugly, rotten animal furs to cover themselves. Rulers can have, depending on their culture and the hardware available, a tent, a small wooden cottage, or a room dug underground. Animals are usually left free, but they are closely guarded because robbery is feared. They have great knowledge of their territory and, if they know that they are going in a place with no trees at all, they bring fire-wood with them.;

In war, they uses an hit-and-run-away tactic if the raiding party is small, but sometimes, when they are really low on food or slaves, they join in a greater horde and try to get past the defenses of MChina. Sometimes they fail, but sometimes they succeed.

When they are past the defenses, they split again in small groups in order to get more loot possible quickly (note that smaller group are very rarely composed by more than 2 different races). They search for gold, food or whatever they can need as quick as possible, then they escape to their territories. When they reach their homeland, humanoids fight for get the best animals and stolen weapons and armours. Anyway, slaves can be assigned only to important generals, tribe-leaders or shamans.;

Many hordes have an healer. It's a humanoid-cleric who worship his race's own Immortal (see GAZ about Broken Lands and Immortal boxed set for more infos) and have to heal the rulers. It often forbidden to heal slaves in peace, but rulers may agree if they are in war and they need soldier. The healer uses healing spells, but he also is expert in preparing healing potions with vegetables (he can also prepare many poisons...).

Shamans are less common that healers. They are magic users, but there are some difference with the human ones. They don't have a spellbook: when they learn a spell, they tattoo it on their own skin (humanoids cannot read and write, but shamans uses some kind of ideograms). Shamans can't learn many spells: they have a -4 penalty on the maximum number of spells they can learn and also on the maximum spell-level (therefore, there could be some exceptions for really very old shamans, or for some humanoid heroes). When a shaman casts a spell, he must shake his mystic sceptre (an artistic staff with a skull on it's top and some precious gems in the skull), shout his magic words very loudly and, if the spell is very powerful, dance. More power a shaman gets, more valuable must be his sceptre (more gems, staff made of the finest wood, a skull of an important MChinese....).

Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it

---------------------------------------------------------------

Just a question about humanoid's in Morient. Should we give them

something special to add in a bit of oriental favor to them. I'm

not really sure what though. Perhaps just change their name a bit?

or something more. One barbaric humanoid I like to add is something

about 7 feet tall, long hairy red fur grow all over their body,

weird colored eyes, pointy nose, pointy teeth, eat raw meat,

chew each others face as greeting custom, total savage and barbaric

in manner, walk around semi-naked, including the females. That is

about all I can think of for now. The description was Chinese's

general conception of what westerner like a couple of hundreds of

years ago :)

----------------------------------------------------------------

on the 25th of July, Shelby Michlin asked:

>Hey, this shaman is terrific! The tattoos, the sceptre, the shouting and

>dancing, this is great! Anyone have anything similar for the "clerics?"

Well, here it is...

(I've got some inspiration on the GAZ about Ethengar...) When an old healer dies, his soul is believed to travel to a child's body, and place a mark on it. So, when a horde loses his healer, humanoids begin to search for a baby-humanoid who as the sign. This mark could be different (a section of skin of a different colour, six fingers in a hand, one ear missing, and so on...), but every 'dynasty', or every soul (as humanoids believe), has its characteristic mark. The humanoid-child is educated by the wisest and oldest member of the horde, and must pass many tests, varying from race to race. Note that the child have to demonstrate his courage, resistance to pain, cold, hot, he must prove that he is totally evil. After the final test, one of the wisest members give him a necklace made of bone of a animal. The healer will have to protect this animal race forever. The healer is now able to cast spells as a cleric, but with some restrictions: healers aren't allowed to cast higher spell during combat since they need exceptional concentration and a ritual during spellcasting. When an healer want to use his magic, he has to follow very complex rituals depending from the spell. Obviously, more a spell is powerful, more complex is the ritual: for example, Cure Minor Wounds could be used in combat since it requires a minor ritual like 'touch your head with your left hands'; but more powerful spells could require dancing, meditations, trance or even sacrifices. For every ritual, there is always 20% (or more) possibility of an event like a thunder, a falling star, wind or even the intervention of a party of adventurers, which disturbs the ritual. If the ritual is disturbed there are [80 - healer's wisdom]% possibility of miscasting. If the spell is miscast the magical power accumulated around the healer isn't controlled and cause [(1d4+2)*healer's level] HP damage plus some possible side-effects. To determine those side-effects, the DM can roll on a Wild Magic table or imagine an effect appropriate to the caster. If the ritual is disturbed but the spell isn't miscast, the spell is lost with no effect.

BTW, the rules about rituals could be also used by shamans...

Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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The Great Empire is currently ruled by a gold dragon who assumes human form on the few occasions when he must interact with his subjects. When-ever the emperor dies, a new emperor is selected by the other dragons. Each "dynasty" of emperors is actually the single reign of a particular dragon. The character of the nation changes considerably depending on what type of dragon the current emperor is—for example, the Great Empire was very militant and aggressive when its ruler was a red dragon. Once in a while a human Mage pretending to be a dragon assumes power, but such impostors are generally deposed after a brief but bloody civil war.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Omm, in Chinese’s point of view, a dragon is probably about as awe inspiring as an angel. I don’t think a dragon will let many people riding it, and even if it does, most probably wouldn’t dare to. I mean, do you think the commoner will have as much respect to the Emperor (an incarnation of a golden dragon) if dragon was mere mounts? Dragon, could be a guardian of some places, especially remote wilderness paradise or some place of high magic. Well, let me describe oriental dragon a bit here. I guess most people know what they look like: long bodied, no wing, 4 legs. Dragons, for most part, are creature of water. They live in the seas or deep lakes. I don’t think all the dragon can fly either. But all of the more powerful one should, as they need to fly to the heaven, generally for the banquet :) Most dragons are also very intelligent and able to take human form. Dragons also have to job of controlling the rainfall. However, dragons doesn’t seems to be very powerful physically. In the folktales they often got beat up, even the dragon kings. Some dragon are also very lecherous. They can mate with almost anything, and the offspring sometime became more powerful version of the other parent, sometime became powerful monster.

BTW, let me reiterate again that I point out things like this

just to let people know what is true to mythical China and

what is not. It does not mean I reject a certain idea. If

most people felt a cavalry of dragons is cool, lets go with

that. However, I think dragons should be rarer to maintain its mystic.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In dealing with dragons in MChina, we have two forces to contend with: on the one hand, we want to depict dragons as Chinese legend depicts them, but on the other hand, we want to preserve the unique Mystaran treatment of dragons. What does that mean? Here is what I would suggest:

1) Except for gold dragons, no metallic dragons exist on Mystara. That is no problem—I would see gold dragons as the best accepted dragon rulers for MChina.

2) Most Mystaran dragons are of the chromatic variety. I would regard these dragons as rare visitors to MChina who only occasionally succeed in becoming emperor. The blue dragon (which does exist in Mystara) was mentioned as the archetypal "evil" dragon. Fine—let’s have at least one such blue dragon as a tyrant in MChina’s past.

3) Gemstone dragons are, according to the Dragonlord trilogy, intruders from an alternate plane of existence. Unless they have a significant role in Chinese mythology, I would exclude them from MChina.

4) Finally, the AD&D game does have a number of oriental dragons, whose place in MChina we should consider:

Chiang Lung: River Dragon, LN-LG

Li Lung: Earth Dragon, N

Lung Wang: Sea Dragon, N

Pan Lung: Coiled Dragon, CN

Shen Lung: Spirit Dragon, CN

T’ien Lung: Celestial Dragon, LN

Tun Mi Lung: Typhoon Dragon, NE

Yu Lung: Carp Dragon, N

If any of these translations are incorrect, then TSR fouled them up—I took

them all straight from the Monstrous Compendium/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello again,

Still working on Averoigne and gnool I’ve found time to search the net

about Chinese stuff. I found two sites which could be of interest :

www.waltontech.com/ch/culture/index.htm

There you’ll find many informations about Chinese fairy tales, astrology, religion, philosophy and so on...

zow00.desy.de:8000/~hungbhy/rpg.html

This a page about a rpg set in a Chinese setting. Of course we are working on original stuff but maybe some ideas could be borrowed, and reading such pages could give us a Chinese mood.

About dragons I prefer to think that the whole country is the Dragon (does this theory belong to Chinese alchemy)...The wall is its spine, the chasm its bowels, when it rains the Dragon cries or sweats, when there is thunder the Dragon roars or fights.

Far below the temple city of the Emperor there’s a cave where the Emperor drinks the blood of the Dragon to have immortality and full knowledge of its land and its inhabitant. But the more blood the Emperor drinks the more its soul dissolves in the land and in the spirit of the Dragon. Some Emperors are so close to the Dragon, and so so far from the ‘reality’ that they have to be removed.

The spirit of the Dragon inhabits every inhabitants of MChina so when there’s a revolution it’s an idea of the Dragon, so say the priests close to the people.

The Dragon has enemies from the inside and from the outside. Inside enemies, sometimes called worms or diseases, want to take control of the Dragon or they want to corrupt it (by drugs, alcohol). They are like hunters who want a part of an animal (its fur, its meat, its feathers) ignoring their greed will kill the animal, they don’t see the Dragon as a whole thing.

Outside enemies are the beasts who roams around the Dragon to kill it, you got the Hyena (the gnoll nation), the Raven (some barbarians, maybe jennites) and so on. In fact every nation got an animal name, and of course there’s a legend about each animal or monsters.

I thought of this as I wrote it, I hope my English will improve.

About bookkeeping, maybe is it time to make a list of all the ideas we had. That would be better than checking all the post. As I remember there’s some central questions :

· Where is MChina ?

· What are its neighbors ?

· What is MChina ?

Maybe it would be better to have an agreement about the organization of our work before Joe Duncan suffocates under the great number of posts ;)

Would it be possible to take the presentation of a GAZ and then dispatch the work in groups. A group working on flora and fauna, another one on religion, one on magic, one on government and so on. Of course it’s impossible to design a nation in this manner if every workgroups doesn’t exchange its works every week.

That’s just an idea, any comments ?

Pascal

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<< That’s a really nice idea of having dynasties of dragons. I wonder if

there

would be any dragon riding people. If dragons were living with humans, the

elite military could be something like this. On the other hand, if the

dragons were living among humans secretly, this would not be the case, or be

very rare. >>

I can’t see dragon riders in MChina—the dragons (or at least one of them)

rule the country, so they would very seldom give rides to humans. And, while

I figured that it would be common knowledge that the emperor is a dragon,

I also figured that he would assume human form to interact with his subjects

--

not to deceive them, but for convenience.

However, I do see another possibility that should be considered. If the dragon-emperor rules in human form, he would be expected to gather a harem of human wives. The result could be a large number of half-dragon noble offspring. So the elite warriors of MChina would not be dragon riders but half-dragons.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kaviyd@aol.com pontificated:

>

· I can’t see dragon riders in MChina—the dragons (or at least one of them)

· rule the country, so they would very seldom give rides to humans. And, while

>

· I figured that it would be common knowledge that the emperor is a dragon,

· I also figured that he would assume human form to interact with his subjects

· not to deceive them, but for convenience.

Perhaps dragon-kin riders. As I said before, dragon can mate and breed offspring with almost anything. For example a very good horse is some time called dragon stallions. As for the emperor, he might not able to take the form of dragon for one reason or the other. A true ruler should be a golden dragon, but one can never tell whether the emperor is the true ruler or not. Some of the famous usurper or corrupted emperors are said to be incarnation of toad, giant rat, etc.

· However, I do see another possibility that should be considered. If the

· dragon-emperor rules in human form, he would be expected to gather a

· harem of human wives. The result could be a large number of half-dragon

· noble offspring. So the elite warriors of MChina would not be dragon riders

· but half-dragons.

Perhaps dragon blood is needed for being a nobility.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 96-07-26 03:11:58 EDT, dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu (David ‘Azure’ Leland) writes:

<< I recently got the Council of Wyrms boxed set, and there are rules

for half-dragon PCs (or NPCs, for that matter) within. >>

There is one critical difference between the half-dragons of MChina and those of _Council of Wyrms_: The MChina half-dragons would be half-human and thus have no racial abilities to give up for dragon abilities. But Dragon #206 proposes a way of handling such characters: they simply gain one dragon ability per even level until they reach maximum level.

One interesting possibility that we might want to introduce into an MChina campaign is that a half-dragon who reaches maximum level could go on some sort of quest to become a full dragon. If he is successful, he will become his father’s heir. At that point, of course, he would be retired from play and become an NPC (if he isn’t one already).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

· >A cavalry of Dragon-Riders would be wonderful in a more mythical Europe

· >setting. For the MChina setting, I agree that Dragons should be

· >extremely rare

· >(at least as far as the commoners know).

> >

I’ve always liked the idea that whenever a dragon moves, the world shakes. By that I mean to say dragons are only personally involved in the biggest events of the continent.

This has not been the case with how AD&D dragons are portrayed, but I think this sort of atmosphere would be particularly appropriate for an oriental setting.

This, however, also implies :

a) dragons are old

b) there aren’t that many of them; there are certainly no "young" dragons for would-be adventurers to go out and slay as the baddie of the week.

c) they’re whopping powerful

d) dragon riders? You’re kidding, right? Maybe riding weeny eastern dragons, but oriental dragons are the next best thing to the gods in the Celestial Bureaucracy. Let a mortal get on it’s back? Hah! He’d better be a divinely appointed champion with proper paperwork from the Heavens, and even then, maybe the dragon will just ferry him one-way, carrying him on a claw or something. :)

As an aside, I have an oriental setting I created for an RPG I’m working on. It’s quite lengthy, and only part done (but enough to play off), so I wasn’t sure whether to post it or not, for ideas and feedback since the list is presently concerned with making an oriental setting.

If anyone is interested in seeing this, and critiquing this, e-mail me

privately at "seah@sfu.ca"

Simon

:)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact, I would recommend that any Western adventurer in MChina who mentions slaying dragons would henceforth be treated by the locals as the barbarian that they always suspected him of being. To get an idea of how much such an adventurer would be loathed, picture an Eastern adventurer who shows up in MEurope and casually talks about killing kings and bishops.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

· About dragons I prefer to think that the whole country is the Dragon (does

· this theory belong to Chinese alchemy)...The wall is its spine, the chasm

· its bowels, when it rains the Dragon cries or sweats, when there is thunder

· the Dragon roars or fights.

Based on Chinese’s creation myth, a giant pop out an egg when the universe was in primal chaos. He pushed sky and earth apart, then after he died, his blood became rivers/ocean, hair became forest, eyes became sun and moon, etc. But we could substitute him with a dragon.

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mystarans:

I’m was thinking of looking into Oriental Mythology and Folk Lore for the purpose of developing some MOrient Specific Monsters. The Orient is full of interesting and unusual creatures that we could really make use of. There are probably some which will actually be modified variants on existing standard monsters too.

And, we definitely need to develop an MOrient "Dragon". I would suspect that standard "Dragons" could also live near the MOrient, but they would be much rarer than the "Emperor Dragons", and would not be accorded the same level of respect that the "Emperor Dragons" were given, since they are not really of the same ilk.

Actually, I just remembered, I have a book a borrowed from my Mother called "Dragons, A Natural History" that includes some information on Oriental Dragons (Both the Chinese and Japanese types). It might be of some interest to share some of the information from it with the list for further perusal. I’ll try to post it in the next couple of days (after I manage to find the book...)

That’s all!

-=< strawberryJAMM >=-

 

--

Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs

jam@wimsey.com <==> http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~jam/home.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mystarans:

At the bottom of this post is a (somewhat lengthy) discussion of Oriental Dragons as taken from the book "Dragons, A Natural History", by Dr. Karl Shuker. While the dragons of the MOrient will most likely be significantly different, I thought this information might be a good hook up for our imaginations. In particular, the maturing process is interesting, though I suspect it would need a lot of modification. I also think the point about the "five toed" version of the azure "spiritual dragon" being the insignia of the emperor could prove useful—perhaps the ranks of "nobility" of the dragons (and half-dragons) in MChina depend on the number of claws they have. (in other words, the number of claws would prove an individual’s lineage).

Comments? Ideas? Brain Storms? Please post!

-=< strawberryJAMM >=-

===========================================================================

Oriental Dragon exhibit many fundamental differences from their Western counterparts, in particular, their ability to fly even when wingless; their generally benevolent nature and relationship with people; and the reverence for these ethereal dragons held by the people of these countries.

"Indeed, many of the East’s most ancient and august human lineages actually claim descent from them."

According to Wang Fu (active during the Han dynasty, 206BC - AD220), the Chinese dragon is actually composed of a very complex combination of features, drawn from nine very distinct entities: head of a camel, eyes of a demon, ears of a cow, horns are the branched antlers of a stag, neck of a snake, belly of a clam, the soles of its feet are a tiger’s, claws are an eagle’s and the 117 scales sheathing its long body are those of a carp. Of these scales, 81 are infused with "yang" (benevolent essence) and 36 with "yin" (malign essence) for although Oriental dragons are primarily benign, their influence can sometimes be malevolent too.

"Even its voice is ambivalent: likened to the jingling of copper pans, it is neither mellifluous nor cacophonous."

The male dragon’s potent power is said to derive from a large, luminous pearl which is concealed under its chin or throat by folds of skin. Part of this power included an adept ability at shape changing, good enough to successfully emulate the human form.

The Chinese dragon is said to mature and metamorphosis over a period of 3000 years. First it is hatched from a gemlike egg laid 1000 years earlier, it starts life as a water snake which takes 500 years to develop the head of a carp. It is now known as a "kiao". Over the next 1000 years it continues its fishlike development and acquires the scales of a carp, and develops four short limbs with four sharp claws each, an elongated tail, and a bearded face. It is now called a "kiao-lung" or simply a "lung" which translates as "deaf" because although it has ears, they do not work. During the next 500 years, the "lung" grows a pair of horns—through which it can hear. Now it is known as a "kioh-lung" which is the most familiar form of the Chinese dragon, however it has still not completed its metamorphosis. After yet another 1000 years, it will gain the rarest characteristics of the Oriental Dragon: a series of branching wings.

"Fully mature at last, the winged dragon is termed a "ying-lung" and is truly a wonder to behold."

There are several types of Chinese dragons, but the four most important ones are:

1) "t’ien lung" -- the celestial dragon, protector of the heavens and

guarding of the gods’ heavenly abodes.

2) "shen-lung" -- the spiritual dragon, the azure-scaled master of storms

and skyborne bringer of rain.

3) "ti-lung" -- the dragon of land, stream and river, which spends

springtime in heaven and autumn in the sea.

4) "fu-ts’ang lung"—the treasure dragon, keeper of secret hoards of priceless jewels and precious metals within the deepest, darkest vaults of the earth.

A special "breed" of the "shen-lung" which had five toes was known as the "imperial dragon" and only the emperor of China was permitted to use this image for decorative purposes.

"The penalty imposed upon anyone appropriating this insignia was death."

Other notable Chinese dragons include the yellow dragon or dragon horse, a divine messenger that arose from the River Lo, revealing the eight trigrams of the system of divination known as the I-Ching; the human-bodied fire dragon "lung-wang" (i.e., he has the head of a dragon on the body of a human)

· the immortal dragon king, inhabiting an opulent palace on the ocean floor; and the thunder dragon, with obsidian scales, which often transforms itself into a small boy whose skin is bright ultra-marine and who rides upon a scarlet carp.

But, the oddest Chinese dragon would be the "t’ao t’ieh", which has only one head and a single pair of forelegs, but two bodies, each with its own pair of hind legs and tail.

"Exiled to the outer darkness of space in the second millennium BC by the emperor Shin, this six-legged monster personifies gluttony, which is the literal translation of its name, and it is often depicted on dishes as a deterrent to greed."

The Chinese dragon and the Japanese dragon are superficially similar,

although the Japanese ones tend to be more serpentine in shape and are less

prominently aerial. The most familiar Japanese dragon is th "tatsu" which

descended from a primitive variety of Chinese dragon. Unlike its ancestor,

it is traditionally associated more intimately with the sea than with rain

· for Japan is less vulnerable than China to drought-related devastation, reducing the necessity to pray to rain-releasing dragon deities.

===========================================================================

--

Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs

jam@wimsey.com <==> http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~jam/home.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks about the post, now I know where did TSR and SJG got some of their ideas from. However, some of the info below doesn’t quite seems right to me. It probably are not wrong, just not the popular description of dragons. For example, someone writing about Arthurian legend might describe Lancelot as average looking perhaps even slightly malformed. While that is correct based on some of the older works, it is not the way he is commonly described as today. Of course, as our creation are just based on China’s folk tale, it doesn’t really matter which folk tale we draw our idea from. But I just like to point out the following passage by no mean is the only description of dragons.

· "five toed" version of the azure "spiritual dragon" being the insignia of the

· emperor could prove useful—perhaps the ranks of "nobility" of the dragons > (and half-dragons) in MChina depend on the number of claws they have. > (in other words, the number of claws would prove an individual’s lineage).

This is almost certain to be a mistake. Emperor’s insignia is a 5-toed gold dragon. Major officials can wear robes with 4-toed dragon (I’m not certain about the color of those dragons). Next tier wear 3-toed dragon robe.

· face. It is now called a "kiao-lung" or simply a "lung" which translates as

· "deaf" because although it has ears, they do not work. During the next 500

Where the name "lung" (Chinese for dragon, pronounced more like "lone" as in alone in Mandarin) come from is in constant debate.

· 1) "t’ien lung" -- the celestial dragon, protector of the heavens and

· guarding of the gods’ heavenly abodes.

· 2) "shen-lung" -- the spiritual dragon, the azure-scaled master of storms

· and skyborne bringer of rain.

· 3) "ti-lung" -- the dragon of land, stream and river, which spends

· springtime in heaven and autumn in the sea.

· 4) "fu-ts’ang lung"—the treasure dragon, keeper of secret hoards of

· priceless jewels and precious metals within the

· deepest, darkest vaults of the earth.

I don’t think this is a popular way of dividing dragons.

· "The penalty imposed upon anyone appropriating this insignia was death."

Actually, it probably going to be much worse ...

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I’m also thinking about several different ways that we can treat the Dragon emperor. One is that the emperor is a true dragon is known to every one and no one will question his authority. This will make the campaign in MChina more static.

Another is that the emperor SHOULD be a dragon, but no one knows for sure. This will add more court intrigue into the campaign as all of the contenders for the position of emperor like to think they are the true dragon and try to convince others of that too. The Dragon Throne is probably a powerful artifact that kill any normal human sits on there. One needs to have special blood or spirit inside to safely sit on it, but he not necessarily have to be a dragon, as other animal incarnation could also sit on it. So by just sitting on the Throne can’t be used as a test. 

Just a few ideas that popped into my head. Feel free to make any comments.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reviewing the scanty "official" material about Skothar, I have come to realize that this continent just begs for further development. Referring to Dragon #153, where the "Princess Ark" series begins, I see many place names from the old Master’s set given, along with commentary by Prince Haldemar stating that all of it is wrong. However, he seems to overstate his case—at least one of the nations whose existence he rejected, Tangor, actually exists on Mystara.

I would suggest that he was equally mistaken about the "Empire of the Great Khan" in central Skothar, which the Alphatians never explored because they never got past the Jennites and Minaeans of the coastal regions. This would be the perfect location for a culture based on that of China. This "Great Empire" was originally settled by Jennite nomads and was prey to attacks from them until they were weakened by a civil war that destroyed many of the nomads and caused many others to be transported to the Hollow World. If you want a "Great Wall" to exist, it is certainly conceivable that they would have built one between the Empire and the Steppes of Jen.

Anyway, once the Jennites were out of the picture, the "Great Empire" began its rise to greatness. Eventually they became so powerful that their enemies—the Jennite nomads to the northwest, the Minaean pirates to the southwest, and the Nentsun humanoids of the surrounding mountains -- wereforced to respect their borders. They built a single seaport next to the Sea of Zamara and sent out trading expeditions all over the world but avoided "barbaric, uncivilized" areas such as Alphatia, Bellisaria, the Isle of Dawn, and the continent of Brun (in short, all of the "Known World").

For various reasons, they regarded the Alphatians and later Thyatians as barbarians of the worst sort, and the sack of their seaport by the Alphatians ca. 700 AC only confirmed this attitude—as well as initiating a period of isolationism from which the Great Empire has not yet emerged. (For their part, the Alphatians thought that the seaport they sacked was a Minaean pirate base.)

The Great Empire is currently ruled by a gold dragon who assumes human form on the few occasions when he must interact with his subjects. When-ever the emperor dies, a new emperor is selected by the other dragons. Each "dynasty" of emperors is actually the single reign of a particular dragon. The character of the nation changes considerably depending on what type of dragon the current emperor is—for example, the Great Empire was very militant and aggressive when its ruler was a red dragon. Once in a while a human Mage pretending to be a dragon assumes power, but such impostors are generally deposed after a brief but bloody civil war.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

· I would suggest that he was equally mistaken about the "Empire of the

· Great Khan" in central Skothar, which the Alphatians never explored

· because they never got past the Jennites and Minaeans of the coastal

· regions. This would be the perfect location for a culture based on that

· of China. This "Great Empire" was originally settled by Jennite nomads

· and was prey to attacks from them until they were weakened by a civil

· war that destroyed many of the nomads and caused many others to be

· transported to the Hollow World. If you want a "Great Wall" to exist, it is

· certainly conceivable that they would have built one between the Empire

· and the Steppes of Jen.

The name Khan is a Mongolian term, not Chinese. BTW, I point these things out just to let people know, does not mean I’m against the idea. This could be a mistranslation by the Known World explorer, for example.

· Anyway, once the Jennites were out of the picture, the "Great Empire"

· began its rise to greatness. Eventually they became so powerful that

· their enemies—the Jennite nomads to the northwest, the Minaean pirates

· to the southwest, and the Nentsun humanoids of the surrounding mountains > -- wereforced to respect their borders. They built a single seaport next to > the Sea of Zamara and sent out trading expeditions all over the world but > avoided "barbaric, uncivilized" areas such as Alphatia, Bellisaria, the Isle > of Dawn, and the continent of Brun (in short, all of the "Known World").

One possible explanation that MChina never made contact with the Known World. China never developed a strong navy, and through out its history, there was only one famous navigator/explorer. This is probably due to Chinese belief that the dead’s body has to be buried in its homeland or the sprite will not able to rest. Therefore Chinese never like to go out to the sea where an accident could cause the body to be lost in the bottom of the ocean, where it going to be nibbled at by the sea life, which is also a very bad thing (Chinese like to be buried with a "full body" so beheading is a much worse punishment than hanging, for example). And since there are no overland route to the Known World (I’m not exactly sure about this as I have no Mystara stuff with me at the school), MChina never made contact with KW nations, with maybe the exception of a few very brave adventurers.

· For various reasons, they regarded the Alphatians and later Thyatians

· as barbarians of the worst sort, and the sack of their seaport by the

· Alphatians ca. 700 AC only confirmed this attitude—as well as initiating

· a period of isolationism from which the Great Empire has not yet emerged.

> (For their part, the Alphatians thought that the seaport they sacked was a > Minaean pirate base.)

Due to Chinese xenophobic and egocentric attitude, they pretty much call every body else barbarians. It will be interesting to put a few "barbarians" nations close to MChina that is actually more advanced than MChina. Even more so if it is a humanoid nation, perhaps the demi-ogres? BTW, can some one relay me some info regarding to the demi-ogres, I don’t remember reading about them, nor could I very easily go look them up at this time.

· The Great Empire is currently ruled by a gold dragon who assumes human

· form on the few occasions when he must interact with his subjects. When-

· ever the emperor dies, a new emperor is selected by the other dragons.

· Each "dynasty" of emperors is actually the single reign of a particular

· dragon. The character of the nation changes considerably depending on

· what type of dragon the current emperor is—for example, the Great Empire

· was very militant and aggressive when its ruler was a red dragon. Once in

· a while a human Mage pretending to be a dragon assumes power, but such

· impostors are generally deposed after a brief but bloody civil war.

Neat! Put a new spin on Chinese belief that their emperors are incarnations of dragons. BTW, please be aware that Chinese dragon are very different from the western dragons. The "bad" dragon in Chinese myth are the blue dragon (what is a good color word for light sky blue? Azure?) and he might be unique. Actually since Chinese believe that many of the important and special people in its history are incarnation of heavenly beast or star magistrates, perhaps most of the nobles and upper class people are actually magical beings. Only the commoners are human. I will think about this a bit and see if I can tie all this up into something.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

<< The name Khan is a Mongolian term, not Chinese. BTW, I point these things

out just to let people know, does not mean I’m against the idea. This

could be a mistranslation by the Known World explorer, for example. >>

You confirmed my suspicions there—when I see the title "Khan", I find myself thinking of Genghis and Kublai. That is why there was only a single reference to "Empire of the Great Khan"—that is the term given on the old Master’s map, and you have given good reasons that it should be regarded as inaccurate. In fact, I suspect that "Empire of the Great One" might be a more suitable name for the country, given their reverence for Dragons and thus for "the Great One"—the chief dragon Immortal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it would be nice to put this together like a gazetteer in the end, hopefully having more than one...

Now for the actual Mystara stuff:

I like the idea of having the wall thing be underground. Perhaps a chasm would be good too, as Kaviyd mentioned, and it still could be sort of an underground wall. It could be the major place where the land of luxury above and the war below met, if we use that idea. I don’t think it’s such a good idea to isolate and divide the area so much, with powerful magic, like fire or lightning or mind affecting stuff. I think the wall should greatly hinder attacks, but not totally.

Someone mentioned secret societies too. The wall area would be a good place, maybe for some cloak and dagger sort of stuff, between the two(or more) sides in the war and the outside if its a chasm or something with access to the outside. An interesting place for a fortress or something of a secret society would be in or near the wall... in a hidden cavern... the bottom of the chasm (if we decide to use it), etc. It might be funny to have a weird gnoll secret society too.

The Empire of the great Khan is a large area of grassland, with some steppes nearby, and Shin Chyang Yu mentioned the name Khan is a Mongolian term, not Chinese. I personally think that this area is obviously a Mongol sort of culture, because of these reasons. Perhaps it would be better to have MChina somewhere else. I am quite glad that the list is actively making stuff for Mystara, but I think it’s much better to build upon what is there instead of changing it. That way maybe more Mystara fans would like it, and it would be more official, you know. Oh, I’m not saying that it absolutely was intended to be Mongolian, but don’t you think it seems like it probably was? Hmmm, does anyone know who made the Master’s map? Maybe we could ask them if they had anything in mind for the area...

Oh, I just remembered someone mentioned the Master’s set map being wrong, because Prince Haldemar explored the area. Sadly, in Champions of Mystara, all the info isn’t there from the Dragon magazine series. Could someone perhaps elaborate on the article, and review the series that deals with the area? We should all know whether Haldemar’s observations seem valid or not, because if not, I think we should go by the Masters map. They contradict each other so we should find out which is more logical. If his observations seem real, I agree that it would be the *perfect* place for MChina.

That’s a really nice idea of having dynasties of dragons. I wonder if there would be any dragon riding people. If dragons were living with humans, the elite military could be something like this. On the other hand, if the dragons were living among humans secretly, this would not be the case, or be very rare.

In this posting I disagreed with some people’s ideas, I only mean it as discussion so please don’t take any of it as flaming.

That’s all for now.

David Melik

darwin@gp.magick.net

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· >itself are generally very egocentric. Some of the names that have

· >been used are Middle Kingdom, God Continent, Central Prime,

· >Middle Plain, etc. How about a transliteration of one of those

· >name? Such as Chung-Kuo, Shen-Cho, Chung-Eun, etc.?

>

· I completely agree with the avoidance of real-world names; I simply use them

· for convenience at this point. Which version of Chinese (language system)

· are these names? (I like them)

I only speak mandarin. Of the three names I listed above, I prefer Chung-Eun a bit more because Chung-Kuo are still been used and Shen-Cho (continent of god) might run into some confusion with the God/immortal stuff even though the god been used there is probably just an adjective to describe how grand the place is. Feel free to suggest some other nice sounding combination of words for the name of the place, and I’ll try to translate it to see how good it sounds. For now I suggest the notation of MChina for the "China" we going to develop in Mystara, and Mwhatever, for other countries/cultures. This way we can easily keep track which place we are talking about and keep it separate from the real world cultures.

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

------------------------------------------------------------------------

· > >itself are generally very egocentric. Some of the names that have

· > >been used are Middle Kingdom, God Continent, Central Prime,

· > >Middle Plain, etc. How about a transliteration of one of those

· > >name? Such as Chung-Kuo, Shen-Cho, Chung-Eun, etc.?

Central Prime, yeah! :)

‘And my son, so as there are many planes of existence, and as the one we live in is the central one of them, the plane of Prime-material, just as well is our divine and eternal country in the exact center of the Prime plane and so we can call it Central Prime. We are truly in the true heart and center of the multiverse, and in the exact point, in the exact centre of the Multiverse, Universe and Prime is the Seat of our Emperor, the Dragon.’

Pasi

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

· About the war below earth, do you know why some Chinese generals were

· buried with statues of their soldiers...Because they weren’t statues but

· real soldiers who were petrified while guarding the body of their

· prince. This is gnoll magic !

As far as I can remember, only emperors buried with the stone statues. In a fantasy realm, those statues should definitely have some real power. BTW, a bit earlier in Chinese history, living people was buried with the emperor. They probably will became undead guardian after a while. Now I think a bit more, I think nobles and any one wealthy probably have stone statues buried with them, just not nearly to the extent of the emperors.

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In a message dated 96-07-25 04:18:18 EDT, darwin@magick.net (David Melik) writes:

<< Oh, I just remembered someone mentioned the Master’s set map being wrong,

because Prince Haldemar explored the area. >>

Skothar seems to be the one continent that Haldemar never visited, but he did cite a number of instances that showed errors in the Master’s set map in other areas. But he did decide to retain many of the place names, even though they later turned out to be inappropriate. Since the Master’s set map gives us nothing but names, it is of little help except as a spur to the imagina-tion. I took the scanty information on that map, combined it with other known information, and created the Great Empire and other nations of Skothar.

The region labeled "Empire of the Great Khan" on the Master’s set map is my proposed location for MChina. Although the people of this country are ultimately descended from the Jennites and thus from horse nomads much like the Mongols, they would now have a more sedentary culture that could be patterned after that of China in the real world. This difference in their most ancient history should pose even fewer problems than the descent of the Ochaleans from the ancient Alphatians does.

Incidentally, one assumption behind my work was that Haldemar could be mistaken but would not knowingly perpetrate a fraud. Thus, if he believes (as the available material indicates) that Skothar is a totally uncivilized continent, then that means that the Alphatians have had no recent contact with civilized Skotharians. Thus the Jennites and Minaeans are savage nomads and pirates, respectively, while MChina and the Tanagoro were for various reasons isolated from Alphatia and the nations further west.

In the case of MChina, that nation could be larger than Alphatia and yet remain hidden—it would have a population greater than that of Alphatia and even greater magical resources, along with a national philosophy that favors dealing with foreign problems by avoiding them. For most of Mystara’s history, MChina is a sleeping giant, and anyone powerful enough to realize the truth about this nation should be wise enough to let it continue sleeping.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, I think it would be neat if it the supposed dragon ruler(s) of MChina NEVER take dragon form in front of human subjects. It could be incredibly taboo, like punishable by death to see the ruler in draconian form. Then you could have a really interesting situation in that it would not be clearly evident that the ruler actually IS a dragon. It would largely be a matter of faith and (in secret) debate among the populace that the ruler is a real dragon and not just using it as some epithet for authority.

/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\

~| David "Azure" Leland ~|~ Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu |~

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

<< It should only have access to the sea on it’s eastern border. That

would limit it’s possible contact with Alphatia. >>

I think you are going too far in making real world analogies here. The problem with MChina having access to a sea on its eastern border is that the geography of Skothar is simply unsuitable for that purpose. China’s coastal regions are lowlands, while the eastern coast of Skothar is almost completely mountainous.

However, given the general lack of interest in exploration by China/MChina, eliminating the coast of MChina entirely would not drastically distort matters.

If you consider area 10 to be too big for MChina, I would recommend as an alternative dividing the region in two. The western half would be inhabited by semi-nomadic Jennite tribes, while the eastern half would be MChina. This region would be sufficiently isolated by its geography that Alphatia would have no reason to investigate it. Furthermore, its westernmost border would be located in an area well beyond Alphatia’s reach.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since there seems to be greatest interest in China, perhaps we should start with a Chinese culture, I suggest the north and west shores of Tangor Bay.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

· In the case of MChina, that nation could be larger than Alphatia and yet

· remain hidden—it would have a population greater than that of Alphatia

· and even greater magical resources, along with a national philosophy that

· favors dealing with foreign problems by avoiding them. For most of

Although MChina might have greater magical resources, they should be not as organized as Alphatia. Most of the really powerful magic user are more interested in study by himself in some secluded mountain than join a guild or involve in politics.

· Mystara’s history, MChina is a sleeping giant, and anyone powerful enough

· to realize the truth about this nation should be wise enough to let it

· continue

· sleeping.

"Let Chung-Eun sleep, for if it wakes, Mystara will be sorry" slightly modified quote of Napoleon :)

--

Problem 7-11 of Fogler’s Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering

Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu

(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu

(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.

Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Melik pontificated:

>I like the idea of having the wall thing be underground. Perhaps a chasm would be good too, as Kaviyd >mentioned, and it still could be sort of an underground wall. It could be the major place where the land of >luxury above and the war below met, if we use that idea. I don't think it's such a good idea to isolate and >divide the area so much, with powerful magic, like fire or lightning or mind affecting stuff. I think the wall >should greatly hinder attacks, but not totally.

Well, I wasn’t intended for it to be impenetrable. Just something that is really impressive looking and maybe hurt a bit. If you are just an average grunt orc, do you want to go through a big wall of lightning even if it might only do a point or two of damage if you run very quickly. Also, along the wall, there will be regular fort that allows travelers and traders to pass through. But that is just mine idea. A big underground wall is a pretty cool idea too, just not as impressive looking. I sort of want the wall to be a major land mark.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

At 05:24 PM 7/25/96 PDT, you wrote:

><<<David Melik pontificated:

>> I like the idea of having the wall thing be underground. Perhaps a chasm >> would be good too, as Kaviyd mentioned, and it still could be sort of an >> underground wall. It could be the major place where the land of luxury >> above and the war below met, if we use that idea. I don’t think it’s such a >> good idea to isolate and divide the area so much, with powerful magic, like >> fire or lightning or mind affecting stuff. I think the wall should greatly >> hinder attacks, but not totally.

>

>Well, I wasn’t intended for it to be impenetrable. Just something that >is really impressive looking and maybe hurt a bit. If you are just an >average grunt orc, do you want to go through a big wall of lightning >even if it might only do a point or two of damage if you run very >quickly. Also, along the wall, there will be regular fort that >allows travelers and traders to pass through. But that is just mine >idea. A big underground wall is a pretty cool idea too, just not >as impressive looking. I sort of want the wall to be a major land >mark.

>

There’s no reason why we can’t have both an over and underground wall...

That way it would fit with keeping the barbarians overground out, and that neat idea of a land of luxury with a bloody war below could still be used.

What does everyone think about that?

David Melik

David Melik

darwin@gp.magick.net

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like the idea of having the wall thing be underground. Perhaps a chasm would be good too, as Kaviyd mentioned, and it still could be sort of an underground wall. It could be the major place where the land of luxury above and the war below met, if we use that idea. I don’t think it’s such a good idea to isolate and divide the area so much, with powerful magic, like fire or lightning or mind affecting stuff. I think the wall should greatly hinder attacks, but not totally.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The idea of just a big stone wall seems to be a bit unoriginal. I really like another poster comment about a underground wall. Or we go even farther. How about a wall of fire, or ice, or lightning? Or maybe a 5 mile wide zone of impenetrable darkness, making coordinate movement of large troop through the area almost impossible. The China equivalent should have pretty high magical power that it can use, and probably have quite a few artifact that has been passed down from long time ago.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

· I read a post about the Great Wall...Maybe this wall could be below earth

· to prevent invasion from the Mystara underdark, such as deep gnolls (I’m

· really fond of gnolls, don’t ask me why...). Just imagine hordes of gnolls

· running in tunnels attacked by groups of ‘tunnel rats’. Imagine a land of

· pleasure and delicacy below which rages a bloody war...

I like this idea alot. The wall should definitely be something interesting. It might not even have to be that effective just have to be very, very intimating.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that a stone wall would not be particularly suitable—I just mentioned in case somebody considered it an essential part of Chinese culture. One problem with such a wall is that the Alphatians would know about it—and start to wonder about the other side.

But suppose we reverse this wall into a huge ditch that is enchanted with powerful mind-affecting spells (that’s right, I’m stealing from the "Xanth" series now). Any invader who fails a saving throw while passing through this region forgets why he came in the first place. Or perhaps anyone who approaches the wall from the northwest is geased to turn around, forget about the wall/ditch, and return the way he came.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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· We not necessarily have to limit ourselves to one MJapan. If people like

· we could develop one MJapan at region more close to its real world

· counterpart, and another one at the tropic in Zyxl (perhaps a old

· colonization attempt that later lost contact with the mother country).

· It would be interesting to see what a tropical Japan will be like.

· Beside consider we already have a hot desert right next to a

· Scandinavian region already, a little temperature change can also be

· explained with various way.

I was thinking of something like that, and even had an an idea of how to explain Zyxl as being mid-temperate to cold despite its latitude. Basically, one of Japan’s creation myths involves a giant dragon being slain, and I believe its body became part of Japan. (It’s been a while since I read the myth.) In Mystara, it would be quite possible to imagine a myth of an epic battle with an immense white dragon, so cold that when it died and fell into the ocean, it chilled the waters and lands for hundreds of miles around, for thousands of years, and its body was covered in ice and became one of the northernmost points of Zyxl. (I also recall the battle involving the legendary three treasures of the Emperor - the sword, the mirror, and the curved jewel, which could easily be real magic items or even artifacts in MJapan.) What do people think of this idea? (It doesn’t even have to be a factual legend - just the way the people of Zyxl believe it to be. The real reason might be ancient magic, or Immortal intervention, or some combination of those with the events of the legend, or something else.)

Also, I’m considering combing my kanji dictionary to create an appropriate name for MJapan that would *sound* a little like Zyxl, so that when Thyatian explorers come across the island, they can continue calling it Zyxl just as our European explorers called the islands of Nippon Japan. Any opinions of that?

--

Scott Johnson | zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

· Lets see, the dragon part sounds good to me, and so does immortal

· intervention/ancient magic, like a powerful being got mad because the dragon

· was slain and did something like froze the area. Or Blackmoor could have

· something to do with it.

An idea: Zyxl, as it is today, was founded by refugees from MChina. (It’s aboriginal inhabitants, Mystaran counterparts to the Ainu, were already there, but slowly driven towards extinction by the MChinese immigrants. I’m still thinking about whether the MAinu should just be another human culture, or perhaps representatives of a demi-human race.) This would explain why its culture is somewhat similar to MChina’s despite the great distance. They were fleeing due to a civil war, or an act of great treason, or something of the like, in which they were on the side opposite of the Emperor. Whatever it was, it was enough that the Emperor of MChina felt they deserved the ultimate punishment, so horrible that one could live a millennium without ever seeing it: the Emperor took his true dragon form, utterly immense, and set out to slay the refugees by his own hand. (Or talon, or whatever.) He chased the refugees a great distance, preventing them from stopping at any of the seemingly-habitable lands they came across on the way. But finally, one refugee, a great hero of theirs, confronted the Emperor in the waters and sky east of Skothar, near Zyxl, and in an epic battle, slew him. The refugees were jubilant, and crowned this hero their first Emperor, and he eventually ascended to the ranks of the Immortals (Dynast or Epic Hero would seem to work for him). The Immortals who watched over MChina and the MChinese Emperor were less pleased, and cursed Zyxl to eternal chill, perhaps shutting off its central volcano (Mt. Fuji?). Over time, the legend grew to the point where people now believe that the isle (isles?) of Zyxl *is* the Imperial Dragon’s corpse. (All this assumes that MChina has a dragon Emperor, of course, as has been suggested elsewhere.)

--

Scott Johnson | zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank.

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· But remember that the Gombarians also use the name Zyxl, so the distortion

· should not be too extreme. But from what little I know of the Japanese

· language, "Zyxl" is even more alien to them than it is to English speakers.

>

Well, something like ‘Jikushiru’ might work - in Japanese, ‘u’s tend not to get voiced as much, so it sounds like ‘Jikshir’, and the Japanese ‘r’ is halfway between the English ‘r’ and ‘l’, so it becomes more ‘Jikshil’ if you like - which is almost a Japanese pronunciation of ‘Zyxl.’ Certainly not much farther off than Nippon is from Japan. Also, who’s to say that those Gombaran documents actually said Zyxl? They’re supposedly written in the Gombaran language, I’d presume, so they’ve theoretically been translated into English - and if that’s so, assuming they weren’t focusing on Zyxl, they wouldn’t have wanted to bother with a note saying ‘(This is the island known on the maps you have as ‘Zyxl.’)’ So translating whatever the original word was to ‘Zyxl’ would actually make a certain amount of sense.

--

Scott Johnson | zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank.

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· I was just wondering if ‘Jikushiru’ actually means anything, or if you >just sort of created it out of "thin air". :-)

>

>-=< strawberryJAMM >=---

<De-lurk>

Hi all,

I whipped out my Kodansha Japanese-English dictionary to see if there was such a word as Jikushiru. There isn’t. However, there are the words Jiku and Shiru.

Jiku as a noun means variously: A pivot, an axis, an axle, a shaft, a stem, a stalk, a scroll, or a roll.

Shiru as a noun means: juice, sap, soup, or (in a metaphorical way) profit.

Shiru as the infinitive form of the verb means:

1. know (as to understand an idea or a fact)

2. appreciate/understand

3. know (as to know a person)

4. recognize/know

5. think of/feel/notice

6. <Usage in a phrase that means roughly - "None of your business.">

7. see/experience

My apologies to any Japanese speakers if these definitions are a little off (especially the verb!). Japanese can be subtle, and is very context-sensitive. I might not have gotten it exactly right, but I think it gives us a good idea of some material to work with.

Here are a couple of suggestions:

Jiku could be a term for the Emperor of what being called Zyxl, and that the country’s borders were described as being only bounded by the knowledge, experience and awareness of the Emperor. Obviously this didn’t come across in the translation. >;-)

Alternatively, it could mean that their country (or the Emperor, or something) is described as the pivot (or central mechanism) for the world’s profits, best interests, etc.

I know that there is a person on this list who is living in Japan, and who would probably have a better interpretation. Any comments?

Regards,

Shadow Dragon.

<Lurk>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Alternatively, it could mean that their country (or the Emperor, or something) >is described as the pivot (or central mechanism) for the world’s profits, >best interests, etc.

From this perspective, rather than "profits", wouldn’t the idea of "sap" be useful, if you think of "sap" as the "life" of plants and (possibly) the planet? Then Zyxl would be the "pivot of sap" or in other words, a metaphor for the "heart of life". (The meaning of "jiku" as a "stem"/"stalk" also fits in with the term "sap"/"juice" in a similar way).

This "metaphor" could also have been a "mistranslation" of what some native was trying to explain, and eventually stuck.

Just some more food for thought,

-=< strawberryJAMM >=-

--

Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs

jam@wimsey.com <==> http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~jam/home.html

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· I’ll work on it. I’m going to dig up the article in Dragon on this demi-ogre

· nation

· and find a location for this nation. What culture should I base this on?

· Feudal Japan?

My two bits’ worth says no. Japan is cool and there’s a lot of inspirational material there, but everybody does campaign settings based on Japan. Its the most popular and most overused of Asian settings, and the Japanese Samurai has become almost as Cliché a character as the English knight or paladin. And (it’s just my opinion) Ninjas are old hat, overrated, and overused. The ninja has such a cultural mystique that DM’s tend to allow the Ninja class abilities out of proportion to all other classes, which unbalances games. Bits and pieces of Japanese myth and legend might be useful for creating Sumag and Suma’a, but let’s not have it be just another Myoshima except with Ogres.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since someone already mentioned Japan and Samurais, why not have a combination of the two? Zyxl could be a hypermilitaristic feudal nation where only women are allowed to bear arms and a rigid code of conduct governs honor and combat. Perhaps (devious grin) the men of Zyxl could be in revolt ... since they are slaves without weapons, maybe they invent all sorts of new martial arts and weaponry made from agricultural tools ... men could have secret societies for the teaching of karate and the making of tonfa and nunchaku even as amazon samurai patrol the countryside in splint mail on horse back and punish the gender rebels ...

m@2

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Hey everyone! Here’s a little something I thought up in a kind of story form. It’s based on a Mystaran version of the nation of Myanmar, better known as Burma. Sorry that it’s so long, feel free to skim over as much as you like. If anyone is interested, there are some incredible pictures of this culture at the Myanmar government’s home page. It reads like the propaganda of a third world dictator, but it still contains great pictures: http://www.myanmar.com/gov/tourist/anc.html If you find this at all interesting, I advise you to check out this site and to also reply to this post with comments/criticisms/whatever :~)

An excerpt from the diary of Taferias of Mafertat, Captain of the Glorious <Immortal’s Pride>; Faithful Explorer to Her Imperial Majesty, Eriadna the Wise; Wizard Extraordinaire; etc.; etc.; etc.

"

...We believed all was lost once the ship ran aground, for everyone knows that this area of the world holds nothing remotely resembling civilization. We couldn’t determine our exact location due to the storm, which was still as fierce as ever, but we knew that we were somewhere on the jungle coast of the Sea of Steam or perhaps the Gulf of Tangor. At any rate, our chances looked grim: even if we did somehow manage to repair the ship, we still could not get away from this place without facing THEM again. At this point, I think I’d rather take my chances with the jungle.

Daylight finally brought a clearing of the storm. The damage to the ship was not as serious as I feared that it might have been, but it would still require about a month of hard labor to repair, and we needed provisions. Even if it were repaired, could we get away from here by sea? I certainly had my doubts, but with the sun came new hopes for survival. I decided to lead an expedition up the coast a few miles in each direction in order to see what could be discovered. After a couple of miles we spotted something shining in the distance ahead of us. You can imagine my surprise when I saw, as we drew closer, a full-fledged town. Here! In what everyone knows is the absolute middle of nowhere! At first glance, I would have to guess that this town is about as big as home, back in Mafertat, Frisland, Alphatia. The homes were primarily made out of wood with straw and mud to seal them, and many small fishing canoes were moored along a full half-mile stretch of the shore and along the slow mouth of a wide river. The people going about their business in the town were undoubtedly human, but their complexion was unlike any other that I have seen. If I had to guess, I’d say that they were closest to the Jennites. They wore fairly typical clothes for this climate—scant and brightly colored, but not indecent. Aside from its size, it seemed to be a fairly typical native village, except for the great temple or palace structure of some sort at the center! It’s gracefully soaring, curving architecture towered over the rest of the town, dwarfing it in comparison. But the most astonishing thing was that this structure was covered with what appeared to be gold! When we came closer and the peasants noticed us, they seemed somewhat frightened, but more an uneasiness of strangers than the panic of terror. They backed away, until three men in red robes with completely bald heads came toward us. Despite what appeared to be a great treasure here, we didn’t appear to be in a very good position to take it by force, so I made the obvious choice to try to befriend them. They three bald men bowed before us, and we returned the gesture. I cast a spell so that we could communicate, hoping that they wouldn’t interpret it as a threatening gesture. They never batted an eye, and I began to speak to them. I explained our situation (they were most impressed that we had actually made it here across the sea), and asked them for whatever help that they could give us. The monks, as they turned out to be, and the peasants gladly and freely welcomed us into their homes, despite the fact that almost none of my men could communicate with the natives. I sat on the floor at a low table with my monk/host and shared a meal of rice and chicken with a strange, foul-smelling, though pleasant-tasting, spice. We also shared several cups of a delicious tea, and then he allowed me to rest the night in his home. It never occurred to me until I was already lying on my bedroll that they never once asked us to surrender our weapons.

It turns out that the palace is actually something called a "Pagoda". Apparently it’s a holy sight for their religion, which seems to involve extreme pacifism and kindness to all beings. They do not "worship" their patron immortal, as so many other primitive societies do, but look up to him as a role model and mentor in their own quest for enlightenment. They call their patron "Rohindartha," but I have never heard of such an immortal. Everyone in the town seems to be a fervent philosopher; Allanmyo, my host, explains that every boy of the town, as well as many of the girls, join the monastery for at least a few months of their lives. If it is their calling, they will spend their lives at the monastery. The monks and nuns (I met a few nuns today) seem to actually be people from all walks of life: many are typical clerics, but there are people reminiscent of Sindhi mystics, and there are even a few magic-users! They follow their philosophy of pacifism and respect for all life very rigidly, though it is believed to be each individual’s responsibility to determine right or wrong for himself. Most of my men, along with some of the natives, went back to the ship today to try to repair it, but I decided to stay to learn what I could of this land.

The dome of the Great Pagoda is real gold! What’s more, the natives tell me that this is only one town in the great Land A Thousand Pagodas. Allanmyo told me that there is a great king of this land who rules from his capital at Pantang, the Glorious City of the Hundred Pagodas. The city I’m in, by the way is called Rangyon. Anyway, Allanyo says that there are hundreds of pagodas throughout the Kingdom. Not all of them are made out of gold; there’s not that much gold in the whole world! But this is obviously an incredible kingdom nonetheless! From how the monks describe the Kingdom, it sounds more like a very loose federation of tribes united in their faith and their symbolic allegiance to their King at Pantang.

Today I awoke to the sounds of shouting in the village. I quickly drew on some clothes and then rushed outside to see what the commotion was. A pair of tigers were in the center of the town, and townspeople were running helter-skelter to try to avoid their fangs and claws. I rushed forward and fired a lightning bolt from my wand. Unfortunately my aim was off in my haste, and it only grazed the side of one of the tigers. I prepared to shoot again, this time more accurately, when I heard a spell cast from behind me and felt myself unable to move. Me! An Officer of the Imperial Alphatian Navy! A powerful wizard! ME! HELD?!? Allanmyo ran from behind me and began calling orders to the peasants, who, instead of panicking, listened and followed his orders. They all ran in the same directions, leaving an open path for the tigers to escape, which they quickly did, running back into the jungle. They poured some sort of tea which, in retrospect, must have been drugged into my mouth. It released me from my paralysis, but also seemed to relax my tension and calm my nerves and my fury. Allanmyo explained to me that the tigers were simply passing through town this morning when the townspeople began to awake, scaring the tigers, and accidentally herding them towards the center of town. The tigers had eaten well that night, and, being one with nature, had no desire to kill. As this was the case, all that Allanmyo had to do was allow them to escape to go back to their cave and rest, all they ever wanted in the first place. This excitement (and probably the tea) helped convince me to go back to bed for a long nap. After my peaceful rest, I had much of the night to converse with the monks. They explained many things of this part of the world, claiming that great empires exist where Alphatian textbooks have always taught exist nothing but barbarians! They also explained some more about their philosophy, which sounds fairly good (and similar to the Great Immortal Alphatia’s) except that it is horribly impractical. Late this evening, one of the monks spotted something moving quietly through town. When we went to investigate and discovered three ghouls prowling the night, I restrained my impulse to attack, remembering last time. You can imagine my surprise when the monks all raced forward and fought the ghouls with such incredible fury that nothing I’ve ever fought couldstand up to their combined might...

These are a strange people: peaceful, yet powerful; knowledgeable, yet unknown; full of seeming contradictions. This diary does not do them justice, with all the complexities of their society, but it at least sheds some light on what until now has been a completely unknown kingdom, right under the nose of Great Alphatia! I for one am certainly glad to consider these people my friends, and I will never spread word of this land to those money-grubbing gold-seekers who would try to rob them blind. Besides, I might be able to turn a healthy profit off of trade with The Land Of A Thousand Pagodas!

"

Well, once again I apologize for the length of this post, but I sincerely ask that some of you take a look at this and see if you think that it is potential material for out Gazetteer-to-be for MOrient. Thanks!

Patrick

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<< BTW, how far away is Zyxl from the

main continent of Sokthor anyway? >>

It is not far from Skothar at all, as it is just off the southeastern tip. That would place Zyxl very near the Tanagoro and the related demi-ogres, not near any other Oriental culture. In any event, Dragon #200 seems to imply that demi-ogre merchants stop there fairly frequently.

Also, the old hardbound _Oriental Adventures_ contains a good deal of information about Oriental religions and monsters. In the area of religion, it points out that Eastern religions are not mutually exclusive as Western ones are—thus, while one cannot be at the same time a Christian and a Muslim, one can be at the same time a Buddhist and a Confucian.

And many humanoid races are mentioned: bakemono, oni, tengu, and ningyo, among others. Much of this material was reproduced and updated in the later Monstrous Compendiums, so many of you who came along too late to have easy access to _Oriental Adventures_ may have AD&D monster stats for many of these creatures.

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In addition to the Great Empire, the continent of Skothar contains many cultures of interest. Like Brun, it has as neighbors many cultures that are in much closer proximity than their real world counterparts. Starting in the north, here are a few of the more interesting cultures:

Nentsun Peninsula: Obviously, this region should be home to a culture similar to that of the Inuit of North America or the natives of northern Siberia. Hidden somewhere on this peninsula is the secret city of the Qauriks, as described in the _Creature Catalog_.

Thonia: This region is settled by people of Antalian ancestry and has a culture similar to that of the Heldanners with one important difference— their elite have access to caches of Blackmoor era artifacts, which they use to launch wars of conquest. Fortunately for the rest of Mystara, they discovered the secret of spelljamming and decided to conquer other crystal spheres rather than waste their time subduing the barbarians of their own world. Of course, this is not good news for the rest of the multiverse.

Steppes of Jen: The details of this culture can be inferred from _Dawn of the Emperors_ and the Hollow World boxed set. Presumably, most of the surviving nomads are chauvinistic followers of Rathanos.

Nentsun Plateau: The areas of this region visited by outsiders are inhabited by hostile humanoids, mostly Bakemono, Oni, and Ogre Magi. However, deep within is a great civilization dominated by Mystics (sort of a cross between Tibet and Shangri-La).

Jennite Sword: More hostile humanoids dominate this area. Here most of the humanoids are ogres (of the Western sort), trolls, bugbears, gnolls, and alaghi.

Minaean Coast: These less civilized cousins of the Jennites who settled the Great Empire are known to the survivors of Alphatia as fierce pirates. Their lands consist of many coastal seaports as well as a dense jungle. Southeast Asia would probably be a good model for this culture. They are long time enemies of both Alphatia and the Great Empire.

Tangor: In the southern mountains live the descendants of the Tanagoro. What sort of culture would they have now? Let’s see—an African culture in a mountainous region—ancient Ethiopia is probably our best model here. For fantasy flavor, throw in the medieval legends of Prester John.

Zyxl: Since Haldemar says that this island was named after a female gladiator, let’s go with that. For anyone who wanted an Amazon culture on Mystara, I humbly submit, this is it! The women of Zyxl are fierce warriors who occasionally go adventuring in the outside world. Their men are kept at home to perform domestic chores and for breeding purposes. Outsiders who intrude on their island are killed or captured and enslaved.

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· In addition to the Great Empire, the continent of Skothar contains many

· cultures of interest. Like Brun, it has as neighbors many cultures that

· are in much closer proximity than their real world counterparts. Starting

· in the north, here are a few of the more interesting cultures:

I like a lot of the ideas you have presented here... let me just post a few of what I think may be interesting tidbits...

· Thonia: This region is settled by people of Antalian ancestry and has a

· culture similar to that of the Heldanners with one important difference—

· their elite have access to caches of Blackmoor era artifacts, which they

· use to launch wars of conquest. Fortunately for the rest of Mystara, they

· discovered the secret of spelljamming and decided to conquer other

· crystal spheres rather than waste their time subduing the barbarians of

· their own world. Of course, this is not good news for the rest of the

· multiverse.

I like some of the barebones ideas you have here, but I don’t like the degree to which you have taken them (Just my opinion, no flame intended. :) I would make this region still very barbaric- they are the ancestors of the destroyed Thonian empire, (an empire done in by their own excesses!- much like the Minaeans or, for a real world example Rome at its end). They have since descended into savagery, forgetting their glorious past. Occasional troves of Blackmoor era artifacts can be found and eventually puzzled out, and such discoveries usually culminate in a mass attack against the other regions of Skothar, though they are inevitably driven back. I might make them similar to the Skandaharian peoples of the DA series, but somewhat more barbaric.

Recall as well, that Blackmoor (and the northern reaches of the Thonian empire) rested on a mysterious black rock which harbored mystical properties- indeed, the whole of the north was very rich in magic- and all the mayhem resultant from it- monsters, etc.

· Steppes of Jen: The details of this culture can be inferred from _Dawn of

· the Emperors_ and the Hollow World boxed set. Presumably, most of the

· surviving nomads are chauvinistic followers of Rathanos.

I would probably (though this is still in debate in my mind) make the Jennites descendants of the Peshwa nomads of the DA series, just to put this in historical context. Leads one to wonder, though, where the Afridhi people and their patron immortal Zugzul are, if any of their descendants survived to the present day.

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· I did not mean one single country, but

>rather a large oriental culture made up of several individual nations and >covering a large area. All types of oriental culture could be placed in >this setting, each one having its own nation(s). Sort of like how the known >world is based on western culture, we’ll base this area on eastern culture.

This is exactly what we should do in developing an Oriental Mystara. Comparing maps of Mystara and Earth show that Eastern Skothar would be ideal with a few minor adjustments. The map of Mystara shows that the designers were not too concerned with making the terrain features exactly match those of the more detailed maps of the known world, so we can also take some liberties with the terrain of Skothar.

The biggest problem that I have seen regarding location is the suggested sites for a Japanese culture. Zyxl is between 5 and 15 degrees north latitude, and most of the point of the Tangor Peninsula lies south of the northern tropic. Real-world Japan is between 30 and 45 degrees north; this area is more similar to the Philippines. I’m not saying that we can’t locate a Japanese culture here, but the climate should be taken into consideration.

Since there seems to be greatest interest in China, perhaps we should start with a Chinese culture, I suggest the north and west shores of Tangor Bay. I personally would like to see this developed, as well as a culture in the jungles south and southwest of Tangor Bay based on Indochina. What sort of underwater culture would fit into an Oriental campaign? I confess I know almost nothing about Asian mythology.It seems that one major step that would help us is if someone could figure out how to get even a rough map of this area on-line. Does anyone have access to a scanner? I felt that an Oriental setting would require a religion similar to Buddhism. Please look at the Immortal Rohindartha in my next post and reply with your comments.

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In a message dated 96-07-28 18:17:52 EDT, jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca (Joe Duncan) writes:

<< Do you mean in the area marked "Nentsun Plateau" on the HW map?

Hmmmm... Tibet/Shangri-La hybrid? Did you develop this for MOrient? Could

you expand on this? >>

Yes, that is exactly where I would place it. And no, I have not developed it beyond a brief description—I will leave that to somebody who actually knows something about Tibet beyond its location.